I really hated playing as Abby. I've killed her in every possible way. I don't think her story is even very well written. She went from Owen being her people to those kids being her people in world record time. I hate that we don't get the satisfaction of killing her. What do we even gain by humanizing Abby? I don't think anybody believed that Joel didn't need to die, but why put effort into making us like the person that killed him? It wasn't very successful and her play style wasn't different enough to make the gameplay feel warranted. I'm left very unsatisfied by this story and very disappointed.
It's still not a bad game. I don't think I could give it any worse than a 6/10. I applaud Naughty Dog for not taking the easy way out, but I just don't understand why they thought making us play as Abby for so long would be fun. The core mechanics are still pretty good, so maybe multiplayer will make up for it.
Would killing her have even been satisfying at the end of it? She wasn’t even the Abby we hated anymore, she was like a shell of herself. I hear what you’re saying and I didn’t enjoy playing her the first go around because I hated her so much, but I’m playing it again and I’m appreciating her story and character more.
I loved it. 9.5 with my only gripe being the editing/pacing.
I know the biggest issue people have with this game is Abby. And I get it. I read the leaks and was disappointed with the direction they went originally. I didn’t hate that they killed Joel, I hated how they wanted us to feel sorry for her. But once I played it, the story just grabbed me. I didn’t like Abby. I still don’t like Abby. I don’t think naughty dog wanted us to like Abby. I think they just wanted us to see why she did what she did. In all honesty, she’s no different than Ellie. Too many people focus on good and bad, when that’s not a thing in this universe. It’s just about survival. That’s it.
Like Marlo once said “you want it to be one way, when it’s the other way”
It’s not about good vs evil. Joel and Ellie did evil things to get to where they are. Hell, even Joel admits it at the end of the game. They do things understanding the consequences. It’s just a never ending cycle until one party decides enough is enough.
Would killing her have even been satisfying at the end of it? She wasn’t even the Abby we hated anymore, she was like a shell of herself. I hear what you’re saying and I didn’t enjoy playing her the first go around because I hated her so much, but I’m playing it again and I’m appreciating her story and character more.
She was emaciated, but I don't think she was any different. Maybe she understood what it was like to be protective as a parent now, but I think that's mostly head cannon and not supported by what's on screen. So I wouldn't feel completely satisfied, but it's definitely a start. I guess I just don't understand what is redeeming about her character. I'm on my second playthrough as well and my hatred of her has not waned. Again, I gave it a positive score, I just think we disagree on how much we like the game.
I loved it. 9.5 with my only gripe being the editing/pacing.
I know the biggest issue people have with this game is Abby. And I get it. I read the leaks and was disappointed with the direction they went originally. I didn’t hate that they killed Joel, I hated how they wanted us to feel sorry for her. But once I played it, the story just grabbed me. I didn’t like Abby. I still don’t like Abby. I don’t think naughty dog wanted us to like Abby. I think they just wanted us to see why she did what she did. In all honesty, she’s no different than Ellie. Too many people focus on good and bad, when that’s not a thing in this universe. It’s just about survival. That’s it.
Like Marlo once said “you want it to be one way, when it’s the other way”
It’s not about good vs evil. Joel and Ellie did evil things to get to where they are. Hell, even Joel admits it at the end of the game. They do things understanding the consequences. It’s just a never ending cycle until one party decides enough is enough.
Also, loved Lev and Yara.
If they didn't want us to like Abby, then why did they spend so much of the game forcing us to play as her? The first part of her story was them explaining to us that her dad was the doctor that Joel killed. They even gave her a love interest. Also, killing Joel had nothing to do with survival.
I do think Naughty Dog wanted to challenge its players (and Ellie) to forgive Abby, not like her.
No matter what their intention was, I did end up liking Abby much more than Ellie by their final encounter. It hurt too much to see Ellie make terrible choices and just when you thought she would call it quits it would push even further. However, they're at much different points in their revenge stories. In the final moments of the game Ellie is only now beginning her redemption.
I also think Abby's half of the game was much stronger overall with amazing set pieces and more story moments. I felt like for Ellie's portion I was being drip fed only a little story which was frustrating for me.
I thought this was a really good explanation on what ND was going for and the themes of the games. Ignore the title— not suggestions you need an “understanding” of the game you just played. Just thought it helps explain where the Abby-non-haters are coming from. Abby still killed Joel, but it doesn’t make her an unsympathetic character.
I thought this was a really good explanation on what ND was going for and the themes of the games. Ignore the title— not suggestions you need an “understanding” of the game you just played. Just thought it helps explain where the Abby-non-haters are coming from. Abby still killed Joel, but it doesn’t make her an unsympathetic character.
One of my favorite newer channels on YouTube! If you want to dig in deeper to their thoughts I highly recommend their Twitch stream highlight which is nearly 3 hours of them discussing the game immediately after finishing it.
Would killing her have even been satisfying at the end of it? She wasn’t even the Abby we hated anymore, she was like a shell of herself. I hear what you’re saying and I didn’t enjoy playing her the first go around because I hated her so much, but I’m playing it again and I’m appreciating her story and character more.
She was emaciated, but I don't think she was any different. Maybe she understood what it was like to be protective as a parent now, but I think that's mostly head cannon and not supported by what's on screen. So I wouldn't feel completely satisfied, but it's definitely a start. I guess I just don't understand what is redeeming about her character. I'm on my second playthrough as well and my hatred of her has not waned. Again, I gave it a positive score, I just think we disagree on how much we like the game.
I loved it. 9.5 with my only gripe being the editing/pacing.
I know the biggest issue people have with this game is Abby. And I get it. I read the leaks and was disappointed with the direction they went originally. I didn’t hate that they killed Joel, I hated how they wanted us to feel sorry for her. But once I played it, the story just grabbed me. I didn’t like Abby. I still don’t like Abby. I don’t think naughty dog wanted us to like Abby. I think they just wanted us to see why she did what she did. In all honesty, she’s no different than Ellie. Too many people focus on good and bad, when that’s not a thing in this universe. It’s just about survival. That’s it.
Like Marlo once said “you want it to be one way, when it’s the other way”
It’s not about good vs evil. Joel and Ellie did evil things to get to where they are. Hell, even Joel admits it at the end of the game. They do things understanding the consequences. It’s just a never ending cycle until one party decides enough is enough.
Also, loved Lev and Yara.
If they didn't want us to like Abby, then why did they spend so much of the game forcing us to play as her? The first part of her story was them explaining to us that her dad was the doctor that Joel killed. They even gave her a love interest. Also, killing Joel had nothing to do with survival.
They spend so much time as her so that you can understand why she did what she did. Then you’re welcome to like or not like her. I understand why she does what she does but I still came out not liking Abby since I still love Ellie so much more. Playing as Abby for so long helps you simply understand. You play for hours as her and continuously come across Ellie killing her friends. Over and over. Why wouldn’t she be out to kill Ellie? Cause in her head, Ellie is a psychopath. In all actuality, she might even feel more justified for killing Joel just from seeing all the damage that Ellie caused her. But like I said, I don’t like Abby. It almost feels like team Abby vs team Ellie, if that’s even possible in this world. But I’m team Ellie forever.
Ok, one last tidbit. I keep coming back but I just finished it and have soooooo many thoughts. I'll keep it simple. Over the weekend I've done nothing but watch and read all the reviews. I focused more on the negatives since i enjoyed it so much and wanted to see what it was exactly that left such a bad taste in so many peoples mouths. From what I can gather, it seems like most people that hated the game had a huge issue with Joels death. Then it just snowballs from there. It's a shame. I truly feel like this game would have had such a different reaction if those leaks never came out. If that death came organically, the feeling wouldn't be so.... sour.
Anyways, remember folks. It's just a game. Try not to take it too personal. I cannot wait to replay it.
Just finished the game tonight and I think I came around on playing as Abby by the end. That cognitive dissonance when you're forced to switch to her POV is very much intentional and works on a level that you couldn't achieve in a non-interactive medium. She also had MUCH better set pieces than Ellie. That skyscraper bridge and the burning villages were both fantastic. The game overstayed its point by several hours, imo, but whatever. We're living in a viral dystopia anyway, it's not like I have anywhere to go.
Just finished the game tonight and I think I came around on playing as Abby by the end. That cognitive dissonance when you're forced to switch to her POV is very much intentional and works on a level that you couldn't achieve in a non-interactive medium. She also had MUCH better set pieces than Ellie. That skyscraper bridge and the burning villages were both fantastic. The game overstayed its point by several hours, imo, but whatever. We're living in a viral dystopia anyway, it's not like I have anywhere to go.
Glad to hear your take too @Jim ! I would have tagged you too with my ask of ARon if I knew you were also working through the game. Agree that Abby had better set pieces and, as @WonderedObject said, I still don’t like her but I sympathize with her
Finally finished and damn, what an amazing game. I guess I’m in the minority because I think I’m Team Abby(gun to my head) I’m amazed at how the visceral hate I had for a character was completely changed by the end. I wanted to put the controller down during that last fight and yell “Stop Fighting!!” Don’t get me wrong, I still love Ellie but I don’t know that I’ve ever played a game where I did not want to progress the story because I disagreed with my character’s decision so much. Tommy pulling out that map, was a bigger gut punch than Joel dying for me. I was literally mumbling “No, no, no, no” to myself while it was playing out. Hats off to Naughty Dog. They’re pretty good at making video games.
Side note: Dina was played by Shannon Woodward who also played Elsie from Westworld so that’s pretty cool.
Side note: Dina was played by Shannon Woodward who also played Elsie from Westworld so that’s pretty cool.
I’ve been listening to TLoU podcast (really good btw) and Shannon has a few small interviews and during one interview she uses the term “reverie” and I don’t think she did it as a wink but more of a term she picked up and got used to saying from being on WW
Side note: Dina was played by Shannon Woodward who also played Elsie from Westworld so that’s pretty cool.
I’ve been listening to TLoU podcast (really good btw) and Shannon has a few small interviews and during one interview she uses the term “reverie” and I don’t think she did it as a wink but more of a term she picked up and got used to saying from being on WW
Same. That podcast is well done and pretty insightful. Let me ask you this... With the success of this game and how the story ends, there has to be part 3 in the works, right?
When asked about a sequel to the first game, Druckman was real cagey with his answer. But with listening to the podcast it seems they pretty much started working on part 2 immediately following 'Left Behind'. Druckman has repeated that same cagey response when it comes to a possible part 3. Thoughts?
Side note: Dina was played by Shannon Woodward who also played Elsie from Westworld so that’s pretty cool.
I’ve been listening to TLoU podcast (really good btw) and Shannon has a few small interviews and during one interview she uses the term “reverie” and I don’t think she did it as a wink but more of a term she picked up and got used to saying from being on WW
Same. That podcast is well done and pretty insightful. Let me ask you this... With the success of this game and how the story ends, there has to be part 3 in the works, right?
When asked about a sequel to the first game, Druckman was real cagey with his answer. But with listening to the podcast it seems they pretty much started working on part 2 immediately following 'Left Behind'. Druckman has repeated that same cagey response when it comes to a possible part 3. Thoughts?
I would love a part 3 but I can’t figure out a motivator to get Ellie back out kicking ass. Yea they could kill Dina or their son, but that just would be them forcing the conflict and it wouldn’t seem natural. I’d be down for an Abby story once her and Lev got to Catalina.. but I wouldn’t be clamoring to play it. They’d obviously need a really compelling plot
Maybe something involving another immune individual, with an older Ellie playing the Joel role this time? Surely the Fireflies couldn’t have been the only ones researching a cure....
Side note: Dina was played by Shannon Woodward who also played Elsie from Westworld so that’s pretty cool.
I’ve been listening to TLoU podcast (really good btw) and Shannon has a few small interviews and during one interview she uses the term “reverie” and I don’t think she did it as a wink but more of a term she picked up and got used to saying from being on WW
Same. That podcast is well done and pretty insightful. Let me ask you this... With the success of this game and how the story ends, there has to be part 3 in the works, right?
When asked about a sequel to the first game, Druckman was real cagey with his answer. But with listening to the podcast it seems they pretty much started working on part 2 immediately following 'Left Behind'. Druckman has repeated that same cagey response when it comes to a possible part 3. Thoughts?
I would love a part 3 but I can’t figure out a motivator to get Ellie back out kicking ass. Yea they could kill Dina or their son, but that just would be them forcing the conflict and it wouldn’t seem natural. I’d be down for an Abby story once her and Lev got to Catalina.. but I wouldn’t be clamoring to play it. They’d obviously need a really compelling plot
They could completely go in a different direction with different characters. But if I were Neil Druckman (the director), I'd be beyond proud of the game that was produced, but also couldn't help but feel unappreciated when so much of the internet is picking apart and shitting on his game. I don't know if I'd be super interested in jumping back into The Last of Us world.
Side note: Dina was played by Shannon Woodward who also played Elsie from Westworld so that’s pretty cool.
I’ve been listening to TLoU podcast (really good btw) and Shannon has a few small interviews and during one interview she uses the term “reverie” and I don’t think she did it as a wink but more of a term she picked up and got used to saying from being on WW
Same. That podcast is well done and pretty insightful. Let me ask you this... With the success of this game and how the story ends, there has to be part 3 in the works, right?
When asked about a sequel to the first game, Druckman was real cagey with his answer. But with listening to the podcast it seems they pretty much started working on part 2 immediately following 'Left Behind'. Druckman has repeated that same cagey response when it comes to a possible part 3. Thoughts?
I would love a part 3 but I can’t figure out a motivator to get Ellie back out kicking ass. Yea they could kill Dina or their son, but that just would be them forcing the conflict and it wouldn’t seem natural. I’d be down for an Abby story once her and Lev got to Catalina.. but I wouldn’t be clamoring to play it. They’d obviously need a really compelling plot
They could completely go in a different direction with different characters. But if I were Neil Druckman (the director), I'd be beyond proud of the game that was produced, but also couldn't help but feel unappreciated when so much of the internet is picking apart and shitting on his game. I don't know if I'd be super interested in jumping back into The Last of Us world.
Seriously. I just hope it doesn’t sour him jumping into the HBO series and giving it 110%
As much as I would love a Last of Us part 3, I really want to see what new IP Naughty Dog can come up with. I'm not sure what genre I would be most interested in. Maybe a Sci Fi or Fantasy RPG? Maybe something with an open world? It's hard to have a compelling narrative in an open world game, but with how much I enjoyed the open world section of LOA2, I could see Naughty Dog pulling it off. They could also go the opposite direction and do a straight up narrative drama like Telltale Walking Dead, or Detroit: Become Human. I'll be excited for pretty much anything they decide to do.
As much as I would love a Last of Us part 3, I really want to see what new IP Naughty Dog can come up with. I'm not sure what genre I would be most interested in. Maybe a Sci Fi or Fantasy RPG? Maybe something with an open world? It's hard to have a compelling narrative in an open world game, but with how much I enjoyed the open world section of LOA2, I could see Naughty Dog pulling it off. They could also go the opposite direction and do a straight up narrative drama like Telltale Walking Dead, or Detroit: Become Human. I'll be excited for pretty much anything they decide to do.
Same. I am on board for whatever at this point. I am sure there is something in the hopper already that we aren't privy to, but I am dying to know what it is. I would love a new IP at this point as well too. They shouldn't just be the Uncharted, Jak and Daxter, The Last of Us, and Crash Bandicoot guys. Not that that isn't plenty. But I am sure creatively they don't want to get pigeon-holed.
As much as I would love a Last of Us part 3, I really want to see what new IP Naughty Dog can come up with. I'm not sure what genre I would be most interested in. Maybe a Sci Fi or Fantasy RPG? Maybe something with an open world? It's hard to have a compelling narrative in an open world game, but with how much I enjoyed the open world section of LOA2, I could see Naughty Dog pulling it off. They could also go the opposite direction and do a straight up narrative drama like Telltale Walking Dead, or Detroit: Become Human. I'll be excited for pretty much anything they decide to do.
I like all of this! New IP from ND would definitely be rad. But in regards to The Last of US story, I feel like Ellie's arc is incomplete. She needs some kind of redemption. I like the idea @DoubleA_Ron mentioned about her in a Joel-type role. I would absolutely love to play as a 40-yr old Ellie and see what has unfolded in this world during that time jump. Give me the overly sarcastic Ellie as a quasi Ellen Ripley/Sarah Connor mash-up, ALL. DAY. LONG!
Just had a week off, I live in Spain it's hot as hell, so inside air con on - Last of us 1 remastered straight into last of us 2, loved it. I got really bought into the Abbey plot, I played on moderate on 2 and it wasn't too difficult really
Comments
The Abby stuff had a lot of awesome moments, and the addition of Lev and Yara helped humanize Abby.
It's still not a bad game. I don't think I could give it any worse than a 6/10. I applaud Naughty Dog for not taking the easy way out, but I just don't understand why they thought making us play as Abby for so long would be fun. The core mechanics are still pretty good, so maybe multiplayer will make up for it.
If they didn't want us to like Abby, then why did they spend so much of the game forcing us to play as her? The first part of her story was them explaining to us that her dad was the doctor that Joel killed. They even gave her a love interest. Also, killing Joel had nothing to do with survival.
No matter what their intention was, I did end up liking Abby much more than Ellie by their final encounter. It hurt too much to see Ellie make terrible choices and just when you thought she would call it quits it would push even further.
However, they're at much different points in their revenge stories. In the final moments of the game Ellie is only now beginning her redemption.
I also think Abby's half of the game was much stronger overall with amazing set pieces and more story moments. I felt like for Ellie's portion I was being drip fed only a little story which was frustrating for me.
https://youtu.be/bh5gzGs-63Y
If you want to dig in deeper to their thoughts I highly recommend their Twitch stream highlight which is nearly 3 hours of them discussing the game immediately after finishing it.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/671081423
Anyways, remember folks. It's just a game. Try not to take it too personal. I cannot wait to replay it.
Let me ask you this...
With the success of this game and how the story ends, there has to be part 3 in the works, right?
When asked about a sequel to the first game, Druckman was real cagey with his answer. But with listening to the podcast it seems they pretty much started working on part 2 immediately following 'Left Behind'. Druckman has repeated that same cagey response when it comes to a possible part 3. Thoughts?
I got really bought into the Abbey plot, I played on moderate on 2 and it wasn't too difficult really