Fargo S4 (Spoilers)

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Comments

  • Teresa from ConcordTeresa from Concord Concord, California
    I think satchel is Dorothy. Rabbi the scarecrow (remember she missed him most of all) Calamita is the wicked witch. 

    What I'm not sure of is how The Wizard of Oz fits here. But I did love the tornado scene. And while I want Rabbi to survive we know from that page in the intro no one does.  :'( 
  • ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
    the one time he didn’t tell Satchel that if he didn’t come back he’d be dead or in jail  :'(
    Marci
  • Chinaski said:
    the one time he didn’t tell Satchel that if he didn’t come back he’d be dead or in jail  :'(
    Yeah, as soon as he headed to the gas station without saying it I thought, "Uh oh."
  • Aliens! Aliens everywhere!

    The ghost - an alien observing human nature. 
    The tornado? An alien abduction.
    The dog? Transported into the armoire by aliens.

     :# 
    A_Ron_Hubbard
  • HunkuleseHunkulese Québec, Canada
    edited November 2020
    I wasn't a fan of this week's episode. It barely accomplished anything plot-wise and wasn't all that interesting to watch. Every other prestige show that's done a one-off weird episode in the past few years has done a far better job. Was there any point to having most of the episode in black and white except that the Wizard of Oz did it? All the Wizard of Oz bits feel forced and don't mesh with the story at all?

    The weird boarding house wasn't nearly weird enough and didn't seem to have much of a purpose besides showing us yet again that America is extremely racist and proud of it. They also really kept forcing the Wizard of Oz into the characters for reasons?

    What was the point of the episode? Are we expecting to see any of the characters in it ever again? It also doesn't help that the actor playing Satchel was directed to play him in as close to a comatose state as possible. Does he have any connection to Rabbi at all? Does he care if he's gone? Did he view him as a friend? jailer? babysitter? Is he able to react to anything? Does he have a mental disability? Why wouldn't he just go home?
    johnnytruantCory
  • I liked this episode well enough since I like Rabbi Milligan as a character and I think Calamita is an interesting villain (wish we saw more of this). But I think I'm becoming hardened against these kinds of gimmicky episodes, and find myself more contrarian when I read some of the praise that is heaped on them.

    I wonder how this episode is received without the color change and without the previews showing the tornado and priming the pump for the Oz references. Because outside of a pleasing aesthetic, it's just an allusion and a pretty heavy-handed one that's not in service of much. I almost feel like as a literary device, it gets easy accolades because it rewards viewers that "get" the reference.
    ChinaskiCory
  • If you want a really simple explanation of the historical symbolism in the Wizard of Oz, take a look at this 6 minute video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoCUXInCrXs

    I usually show my APUSH students this when teaching populism. Obviously, in a short video like this you won't get some of the detail you might want, but it's a good overview.
    Teresa from Concord
  • MichelleMichelle California
    @Jim & @A_Ron_Hubbard, there is definitely a difference between a macaron and a macaroon.  
    https://www.dictionary.com/e/macaroon-vs-macaron/
    (FWIW, I hate coconut so I can't stand macaroons but looooove macarons since you can find them in all sorts of delicious flavors.)


    ChinaskijluzaniaA_Ron_HubbardFreddy
  • ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
    Michelle said:
    (FWIW, I hate coconut so I can't stand macaroons but looooove macarons since you can find them in all sorts of delicious flavors.)
    1000% to this. esp the hating coconut part!
    Michelle
  • MichelleMichelle California
    Chinaski said:
    1000% to this. esp the hating coconut part!

    Chinaski
  • Regarding the latest podcast: if anyone wants to understand the more intricate details of the debate over the gold standard and fiat money at the end of the 19th century, I highly recommend the article "The color of money and the nature of value: Greenbacks and gold in postbellum America."

    But the short of it is:
    the gold standard limits currency to gold held in reserve, obviously. But that constrains the money supply. By simply supply and demand, if the amount of money out there is limited, and increase in the demand for money means an increase in the price of money, which in this case is the interest rates on loans. So the gold standard was disliked by farmers and industrialists because it raised the cost of loans (farmers by necessity have to invest before they can collect), but loved by finance because it increased profits for simply being lenders.

    The idea is that in wizard of oz the farmers, industrialists, etc are heading to the emerald city, the end of the "yellow brick road" (the gold standard). But that the emerald city is both a fantasy based on a lie, but also the way home.
    tom_g
  • Alkaid13Alkaid13 Georgia
    edited November 2020
    Ironically, US is currently having the Gold standard vs Fiat currency argument all over again because hey 2020. 
    tom_g
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    edited November 2020
    Yeah, it's a shame that how fiat currency works is relatively hard to understand, because anyone that properly understands it would be horrified at the suggestion to go back to gold or other physical goods backed currency. It's like rejecting air travel because metal is heavier than air and everyone knows that.
    Teresa from ConcordBentom_g
  • In the end, could Gaetano have gone any other way? 
  • HunkuleseHunkulese Québec, Canada
    I thought it was another fairly frustrating episode because of the writing. I liked most of the plot points, but how they got there didn't make a lot of sense.

    I enjoyed how the Odis stuff ended, but if you're arresting significant people from a criminal organization, don't you usually wait until you have something that'll stick to them so they don't immediately get out? There's also no way Josto and Gaetano would be anywhere near that hit if they'd just been arrested. I was also hoping Zelmare was going to be involved when I saw the shadow in the apartment, but I guess she's probably gone for good.

    I liked how the Oreatta stuff played out, but it seemed a little silly how she was able to sneak into the house after they had made a big deal of Lemuel there to keep watch and sleep on the couch, and Dibrell was a light sleeper who slept with a shotgun.

    I also thought the final Ethelrida and Loy scene was good except for the stupid ring. No one's cared about the ring all season and now it's going to fix everything? The last time they ended an episode with Loy feeling smarter than everyone else turned out to be a disappointment. Hopefully, it turns out better this time. I'm hoping for something crazy like it turns out to be the actual one ring to rule them all, but they're probably just going to have Josto take the fall for ordering the hit on his father, but I don't know why Loy would have any reaction or care at all about the ring. 
  • Teresa from ConcordTeresa from Concord Concord, California
    If I may add to @Hunkulese excellent observations - how does the backstory of the snowman aka The Roach tie into anything? Did he show up to protect Ethelrida? But he should hate the family and want her dead. Why did Mayflower know he was there?

    One episode left with a lot to tie up in a satisfactory way. 
  • MichelleMichelle California
    Going back to color theory - the scene with the milkman delivering, then Satchel steals a bottle.  The milkman is a very Americana part of life back in the 40s/50s/60s.  There was a strong red/white/blue color scheme here - the white house with the reddish door, the red/white milkman's van, the red/white tricycle, the milkman's blue jacket/white pants/white hat.  
    A_Ron_Hubbard
  • HunkuleseHunkulese Québec, Canada
    A little context for the four-month time jump that didn't make sense for a lot of the plot. It probably wasn't planned as a four-month time jump. "Happy" was in the middle of filming when everything was shut down. There was probably a real-life four-month time jump. Since they film in Chicago, it would take way too much work to make middle of the summer Chicago look like end of winter Chicago.
    lengmo
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Hunkulese said:
    A little context for the four-month time jump that didn't make sense for a lot of the plot. It probably wasn't planned as a four-month time jump. "Happy" was in the middle of filming when everything was shut down. There was probably a real-life four-month time jump. Since they film in Chicago, it would take way too much work to make middle of the summer Chicago look like end of winter Chicago.

    Ooh, that's a good point that I hadn't considered.
  • Hunkulese said:
    I thought it was another fairly frustrating episode because of the writing. I liked most of the plot points, but how they got there didn't make a lot of sense.

    I enjoyed how the Odis stuff ended, but if you're arresting significant people from a criminal organization, don't you usually wait until you have something that'll stick to them so they don't immediately get out? There's also no way Josto and Gaetano would be anywhere near that hit if they'd just been arrested. I was also hoping Zelmare was going to be involved when I saw the shadow in the apartment, but I guess she's probably gone for good.

    I liked how the Oreatta stuff played out, but it seemed a little silly how she was able to sneak into the house after they had made a big deal of Lemuel there to keep watch and sleep on the couch, and Dibrell was a light sleeper who slept with a shotgun.

    I also thought the final Ethelrida and Loy scene was good except for the stupid ring. No one's cared about the ring all season and now it's going to fix everything? The last time they ended an episode with Loy feeling smarter than everyone else turned out to be a disappointment. Hopefully, it turns out better this time. I'm hoping for something crazy like it turns out to be the actual one ring to rule them all, but they're probably just going to have Josto take the fall for ordering the hit on his father, but I don't know why Loy would have any reaction or care at all about the ring. 
    All good observations

    I'll throw in Nurse O expelling air from the syringe (a safety measure) before what would be an injection to kill Etheridge . . . A weird thing for a would be murderer to do.

    Still I'm happy with this season.
  • Teresa from ConcordTeresa from Concord Concord, California
    Even in death we are creatures of habit. 
  • ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
    best way i can describe this season is how i felt about the final season of The Wire. i dug it, but it really could have been so much better if it weren't for unfortunate events. just rushed and overly edited. 

    at least my question to start this thread was answered ;)
    BroRad33Michelle
  • MichelleMichelle California
    edited November 2020
    I gasped out loud when Loy was stabbed.  I thought Zelmare had died at the train station, or what did I miss?
    That's not the ending I thought he would have.  At least he got to see his family all together and happy again before he died.  And also, that facial expression on Chris Rock as Loy drew his last breath... god.  That's haunting.

    I'm not surprised that Josto and Oraetta were taken out that way.  I kind of expected that Josto wouldn't make it out of this thing, but didn't expect she would go with him.  Interesting that they both landed in the same exact pose.  Birds of a feather.

    Nice mid-credits scene with Satchel/Mike Milligan.  Confirmation.
    Chinaski
  • Michelle said:
    I gasped out loud when Loy was stabbed.  I thought Zelmare had died at the train station, or what did I miss?
    That's not the ending I thought he would have.  At least he got to see his family all together and happy again before he died.  And also, that facial expression on Chris Rock as Loy drew his last breath... god.  That's haunting.

    I'm not surprised that Josto and Oraetta were taken out that way.  I kind of expected that Josto wouldn't make it out of this thing, but didn't expect she would go with him.  Interesting that they both landed in the same exact pose.  Birds of a feather.

    Nice mid-credits scene with Satchel/Mike Milligan.  Confirmation.
    Zelmare took advantage of Weff sort of freezing after killing Deafy and Swanee, slapped the gun out of his hand and ran away
    Michelle
  • HunkuleseHunkulese Québec, Canada
    Michelle said:
    I gasped out loud when Loy was stabbed.  I thought Zelmare had died at the train station, or what did I miss?
    That's not the ending I thought he would have.  At least he got to see his family all together and happy again before he died.  And also, that facial expression on Chris Rock as Loy drew his last breath... god.  That's haunting.

    I'm not surprised that Josto and Oraetta were taken out that way.  I kind of expected that Josto wouldn't make it out of this thing, but didn't expect she would go with him.  Interesting that they both landed in the same exact pose.  Birds of a feather.

    Nice mid-credits scene with Satchel/Mike Milligan.  Confirmation.
    I had the opposite reaction to Loy's death. It was a nice scene, but it was way too cliche and telegraphed for my liking. As soon as he said "take me home, the war is over," I immediately thought there was a 75% chance he was going to die. Bumped up to 99% when he stopped to watch his perfect family through the window. I was hoping to see Zelmare get her revenge last week, so it was nice to see her wrap up the story. I also think it's time to stop with the oranges. It's almost a joke at this point.
  • Alkaid13Alkaid13 Georgia
    edited December 2020
    Honestly felt pretty rushed for the season finale. Not even sure why Ethelreda is even in it, she turns out to be a successful something or other I guess based on that flash-forward (?) but also she was cut out of most of the season. Still not sure what to make of Mr. Snowman/The Roach. I thought the mid credits scene with Mike would be tedious if you told me at the beginning of the season what it would be but honestly it was very haunting seeing him reminisce to his time as Satchel and reload his gun the way Rabbi did. Kid lost both father figures back to back and seeing your actual dad die like that would probably fuck anyone up, and that’s not including all the family history. 

    Overall maybe my least favorite season, the themes are all there and having the white (in modern terms at least) NY mafia just steamroll Canon really tied that particular thread together but there’s just too many disparate pieces and players and the season spent too long on people I frankly never cared about and dropped a lot of the characters I did care about for long stretches of time. Good season of television but just an ok season of Fargo. 
    ChinaskiMichelle
  • Alkaid13 said:
    Honestly felt pretty rushed for the season finale. Not even sure why Ethelreda is even in it, she turns out to be a successful something or other I guess based on that flash-forward (?) but also she was cut out of most of the season. Still not sure what to make of Mr. Snowman/The Roach. I thought the mid credits scene with Mike would be tedious if you told me at the beginning of the season what it would be but honestly it was very haunting seeing him reminisce to his time as Satchel and reload his gun the way Rabbi did. Kid lost both father figures back to back and seeing your actual dad die like that would probably fuck anyone up, and that’s not including all the family history. 

    Overall maybe my least favorite season, the themes are all there and having the white (in modern terms at least) NY mafia just steamroll Canon really tied that particular thread together but there’s just too many disparate pieces and players and the season spent too long on people I frankly never cared about and dropped a lot of the characters I did care about for long stretches of time. Good season of television but just an ok season of Fargo. 
    You pretty much nailed my feelings perfectly. Having this many characters doesn't work well for an anthology style of a TV series. There were just too many characters that they wanted you to care about but not enough time and plot to really make you care very deeply about any of them. This ranks as my least favorite season of Fargo but still was a fun series to watch. 
    Alkaid13
  • Alkaid13 said:
    Overall maybe my least favorite season, the themes are all there and having the white (in modern terms at least) NY mafia just steamroll Canon really tied that particular thread together but there’s just too many disparate pieces and players and the season spent too long on people I frankly never cared about and dropped a lot of the characters I did care about for long stretches of time. Good season of television but just an ok season of Fargo. 
    I did appreciate that Hawley essentially made the Mafia the Wal-Mart of organized crime. One last "Story of America" note for the road.
  • I just don’t understand why Hawley fiddled around in the middle only to short the season finale. It feels like Hawley thought people would really connect with Josto I guess but I just never really cared, honestly I liked Gaetano more by the end. Oraetta was too bumbling to be the Lorne Malvo or VM Varga or even a Hanzee type antagonist. Ethelreda isn’t even in half the season and she seems so pivotal at the beginning and near the end but she just doesn’t do anything. Don’t get me started on spending so much time on Weff or Calamita or Leon or some of the other third stringers. We spend so many mid season episodes on these people who just....didn’t really matter much when we could have spent more time on the characters that matter. 
  • Teresa from ConcordTeresa from Concord Concord, California
    I agree with a lot of the opinions already stated. So many characters given promise - then ignored - then wrapped up disappointingly quick. And Snowman? Was he evil? Sorry folks not gonna tell ya. 

    If I was to compare this season against current TV shows in general I’d say it was ok and occasionally fun. BUT if I compare it against previous Fargo seasons it was 100% disappointing. 
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