204 - "Gloves Off"

Written by Gordon Smith
Directed by Adam Bernstein (director of 8 eps of Breaking Bad)

Info courtesy of @hypergenesb 's superb celebration of everything Villigang, the Heisenberg Chronicles. http://heisenbergchronicles.tumblr.com/post/140601340803/bcs-2x04-gloves-off-written-by-gordon-smith


  • WonderedObjectWonderedObject SAN Francisco, CA
    Wow, seeing Mike try and open his eye was so tough to watch. Thought this was a great episode. Just enough Tuco and hey Krazy 8! He looked like a kid tonight and great nod to his Pop's furniture store. I'm becoming more and more interested in Mike/Nachos story line simply because it seems to be giving off a more Breaking Bad vibe. Also did anyone catch the sneak peak on Story Sync? Hilarious. 
  • I'm also glad Krazy 8 believably looked like a younger version of himself.  Usually it's fat foreheads and bad wigs.
  • When I saw the Tampico van I was like wow that's a subtle call back, and then BOOM Crazy 8 is inside! I have no idea why but all of the Breaking Bad stuff they get into these episodes makes me giddy.

    Was the gun salesman the same guy that sold Walt the machine gun?
  • WonderedObjectWonderedObject SAN Francisco, CA
    EMAW42 said:

    When I saw the Tampico van I was like wow that's a subtle call back, and then BOOM Crazy 8 is inside! I have no idea why but all of the Breaking Bad stuff they get into these episodes makes me giddy.

    Was the gun salesman the same guy that sold Walt the machine gun?

    Correct, lots of throwbacks in this episode.
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    edited March 2016
    I've been wondering if the show was going in the direction of characterizing Jimmy as suffering from a type of addiction.  If that were so, it might make me more sympathetic to him.  But contrasting his story with Nacho and Mike's implies that he aligns more with Nacho's failure to see the big picture as well as his immature, impatient outlook.  It's heartbreaking to watch Mike suffer while trying to maintain his humanity and principles while Nacho is baffled by Mike's refusal to "take the easy way out" for a higher payday.  Similarly, Jimmy is baffled by everyone's reactions to his actions.  Jimmy's attitude is that he got caught up in his exuberance, and it netted results, so what's the harm?  Jimmy's self-destructiveness is hard to watch, especially when it hurts Kim (who should really bail on this relationship, stat).  I just hope his actions don't end up harming the most innocent people involved here, the elderly plaintiffs.

    Andrew Stadlertom_gAntManBeeDaveyMacmanhattnik
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    Aww, just realized that Mike received half the original offer to taking a half-measure.  Thanks, Mike.  Without you, we might not have had Breaking Bad.
    DummyAndrew Stadlerhypergenesbtom_gAshley
  • Frakkin TFrakkin T Currently Offline
    edited March 2016
    Howard is still an unmitigated pigf**ker.
  • I really enjoyed this episode after what I thought was a slow one last week. I missed the Crazy 8, thanks for bringing it up.

    Personally I love the character of Jimmy because I see a lot of myself in him. Who cares if something is working right? The on,y reason he has thought about it is because of Kim, he ignored it when the partners and his brother told him the same thing. I have a feeling once Kim leaves him he will become Saul
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    So does this episode make Nacho, Mike, and Tuco the Rick, Morgan, and Negan of the Breaking Bad universe?
  • edited March 2016
    Wow, this one was a treat for Breaking Bad fans. Tuco, Lawson and Krazy-8 all in one episode? It was smart for them to write Tuco out of the show this way, and I expect Krazy-8 will probably show up more in the future, as the idea that they'd get him back just for that scene seems unlikely.

    And that's all without mentioning Jimmy vs Chuck: Round 2, which was just as good, if not better, than the first one. Anyone think the "Jimmy is sabotaging himself" theory discussed on the podcast last week is shaping up to be pretty accurate? He screws up, breaks the rules a few times, and then goes back to his brother to hear the "chimp with a machine gun" speech again, except this time it's true, because he made it true. I mean, he practically begs Chuck for a reason to quit the law for good. I get that his main reason for going there was to help Kim, but that's the impression I got watching this.
  • After seeing Krazy 8 I wonder if the somehow work in Emilio's arrest into BCS. Doesn't he get out of jail at the beginning of BB?
  • For me the only thing missing from this episode was an end scene with Tuco walking into his new jail cell and laying eyes on his new cell mate.....Skinny Pete!

    Great episode! Loved the call-backs (call-forwards?), and the parallels between Jimmy/Chuck and Mike/Nacho. Solid 9/10 for me.
  • edited March 2016
    Multiple references to a lead pipe in this episode. Michael McKean's character, Mr. Green, in the classic movie Clue was given the lead pipe as his weapon. Coincidence?! Yes, probably. :)
  • WonderedObjectWonderedObject SAN Francisco, CA
    Hatorian said:

    After seeing Krazy 8 I wonder if the somehow work in Emilio's arrest into BCS. Doesn't he get out of jail at the beginning of BB?

    Emilio gets arrested and gets out in BB. I remember Krazy 8 actually being a rat to Hank in BB. So that's why Emilio gets busted in the pilot. The most we might get is how Krazy 8 became a snitch and when. Might be the way we get to see Hank on here. 
  • WonderedObjectWonderedObject SAN Francisco, CA
    It should be interesting to see how Tuco gets his boxing gloves necklace back. Seeing as how Mike has them now but Tuco has them in Breaking Bad. 
  • kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.
    Not a fan of this episode. I thought the blow up between Jimmy and Chuck was so bad. the lines about getting in the mud seemed poorly acted. The points that were made seemed be stuff we have covered over and over. I guess the stuff with Mike was ok but the guy that plays Tuco seems to be aging rapidly. He is on that Closer spin off, and that show has gone way past its prime.
  • Great episode in my opinion. I particularly loved all the turns that the scenes with Jimmy and Chuck took. You have Jimmy showing up angry, but then go back into caring brother mode when he sees the state that Chuck is in. But then as soon as he sees Chuck is ok with the tea and everything, he pulls out the barbs. Then I found myself siding with Chuck on some things and Chuck declares he's not the bad guy, and then moves into dick mode by pointing out that Jimmy will be late for work. And Jimmy staying and caring for Chuck is the only reason he's late. Great scene.

    I also found Kim's decision to defend Jimmy by omitting the fact that he lied to her in her conversation with Hamlin to be very interesting. She's in a tough spot. I wonder how Hamlin would have reacted had she told him.

    I really liked the Mike and Nacho show as well, particularly when MIke was pointing out all the potential problems with Nacho's plan. I also loved the scene with the gun seller. Some interesting, but not surprising hints of a backstory there with Mike being a Vietnam vet.

    Lastly, this is not about the episode, but I just started listening to the Insider cast for this episode, and it Gilligan starts talking about "assless chaps" and it was very reminiscent of Jim and A.Ron's chaps conversation on "The Road Warrior" and the follow-up forum comments.
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    Just as Nacho's plan was not thought out, Mike's plan relied on variables he could not control: Tuco's unpredictable nature that is exacerbated by drug use, Tuco's pocketing the wallet (which, to be fair, is not necessary for the felony charge), police response time, Tuco excusing Nacho, etc.  I was also surprised that Mike would concoct a plan that involves him engaging with law enforcement.  He has been careful to avoid the police, something you want to avoid once you decide to become a criminal.  I suppose this can be written off as Mike learning his way because he is new to the criminal side of things, but it nevertheless struck me as a touch reckless.

  • @pavlovsbell

    I wonder if that will bring back the Philly cops too.  I haven't re-watched season 1, but wasn't the Philly police plot vaguely dropped? Ehrmantraut going 12 rounds with a cartel associate might bring them back around.
  • That was a great episode. Loving the Mike/Nacho story line. I found it particularly interesting the Mike isn't get fully willing to commit to murder yet. I wonder when that all changes and what else is going to happen between him and Nacho. The Jimmy stuff was not quite as interesting, but it really took a side to the Mike storyline. Next week should be more Jimmy I would imagine.

    Btw, I wonder if strike 1 was flipping that switch in his office lol. If he hadn't maybe he would only have one strike instead of two.
  • I wonder if Jim Beaver's gun-selling character is simply meant to be the omnipresent guy for this sort of thing. Obviously, Mike wouldn't have been the one to refer Walt to him later on; does Saul eventually get the handgun in his desk (the one he tries to pull on Jesse) from Gun Guy?
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    @GredalBee  I also did not rewatch S1 so I could be wrong, but I think they tied off the Philly storyline.  The older detective knew what was up, and he backed Mike and implied that there would probably be more early retirements to make way for new (clean) blood.   I don't think there is any narrative or character benefit to dredging any of that up again.  At some point, Mike is going to hook up with Gus, who is extremely cautious about who he associates with, and Hank will check out Mike and come up with nothing more than he had a "dramatic exit" (something like that).

    But who knows, if they want to bring the past back like they occasionally did with Gray Matter and Walt, I'm sure they'll find a way.
  • I look forward to that meeting, but I'm nervous about BCS muddying the waters.  Mike is working his way through the criminal hierarchy and just brawled with Tuco Salamanca, with police involvement no less.  At this point, Mike is probably too hot for a skiddish person like Gus to hire.  The more Ehrmantraut adventures, the less plausible that partnership seems.

    But this is what the Villigang does.  Hopefully they write their way out of it like the days of old.
  • JamesJames southern California
    I am kind of fascinated by Chuck's weird concept of what being "the good guy" entails. He spent several years undermining his brother's attempt to better himself, lying to him and forcing others to take on the role of "bad guy." Jimmy waited on him hand and foot under the assumption that Chuck supported him -- It's also worth noting that while Chuck thought of Jimmy as a "chimp with a machine gun" he seemed to be okay with encouraging him to represent indigent clients as a public defender. To me this suggests that Chuck also holds those who can't afford to hire HHM in as low esteem as he holds his brother.

    Once again we find that, to Chuck McGill, good guys and bad guys are separated by their strict adherence to the Bar Association's ethical guidelines -- Since the guidelines don't cover how well you treat family members, anything goes.
  • I have a feeling that Chuck and Jimmy's upbringing has a lot to do with their relationship dynamic, and I have a couple of guesses. One is socioeconomic, that they were raised in either a very well-off family or very poor. Chuck is brilliant guy but he's kind of a snob and I get the sense that he loves Jimmy deeply but is also embarrassed by him. If their background is somewhat shady or difficult (extreme poverty, substance abuse, maybe the dad was some kind of con artist/criminal), then I see Chuck having worked hard to shake off that identity and Jimmy is a reminder of aspects of himself he doesn't want to accept. On the other hand, an extremely wealthy or respectable background could have the same affect, and explain chuck's callousness toward the type of people who rely on public defenders. 

    Another theory is that they are half brothers and have different mothers, and that Jimmy's mother was someone Chuck didn't approve of, or maybe he was mistreated by her, and those feelings have been transferred to Jimmy.  With their age difference it could be extremely likely that maybe Chuck's mother died or something and their Dad remarrried. 

    AshleyMike SnowDaveyMac
  • Chuck's role in BCS was summarized with his, 'chimp with a machine gun' line.  Cannot be redeemed IMHO.  So glad Jimmy threw that line back at him. 
  • tom_g said:

    Chuck's role in BCS was summarized with his, 'chimp with a machine gun' line.  Cannot be redeemed IMHO.  So glad Jimmy threw that line back at him. 

    There's no way I would have been able to be in the same room with that guy after being handed an insult like that.  Jimmy, for all of his flaws, is a stand-up person to sit there and "help" his brother and put up with the BS, even though he know this whole thing is in Chuck's head.
  • Any guesses on Chuck's watch?  Looks like a Cartier.
  • DrewDrew indianapolis
    edited March 2016
    Anyone else wish this was a Mike show with Saul as the secondary character?

    Ok holy shit just finished, that end scene is in my top 5 moments BB and BCS combined. Damn Mike steals the show every scene he's in and the two episodes that revolve around him are the best in the series. I kind of feel bad for Odenkirk getting outshines like this.
  • It's sort of morphing into that, haha.
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