Oathbreaker theory- possible spoilers

Anyone else think that oathbreaker could refer to Jon now?

Another possibility is that it has something to do with R + L = J and the upcoming Tower of Joy scene.

My best prior theory is that it would have something to do with Jaime Lannister, that he would defy Tommen or something, but after Jaime's interaction with the high sparrow, that seems less likely.
Luke
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Comments

  • I like that the oathbreaker could refer to Jon. Now that he has "died" and his watch has ended, he is free to do whatever he wants without being bound by his oaths. 

    It could also refer to Ned breaking his oath to Lyanna and telling somebody else about Jon's true parentage, or about Howland Reed breaking his oath to Ned about keeping the promise and telling somebody. Either way, this would be a great way to reveal R+L=J and tie in the oathbreaker theme. 
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    I don't think it's about him spilling the beans. The only other living person who knew about it was Howland Reed but that has to be because he was there. He was the only other living survivor of the Tower of Joy. I think if he had ever told anyone, news would have gotten out. Now, if you wanna talk Ned, it could be the vow/oath to his wife he pretended to break to cover up Jon's true identity.
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    my Chuck McGill space blanket tinfoil dream is that it is Lady Stoneheart coming for Brienne. But even if LSH shows up this season I think e3 is too early.

    Seems like the show titles serve as themes (which D&D said they don't like) so most likely there will be many versions of oath breaking throughout.

    Maybe it's Sam returning to Horn Hill with Gilly and admitting to breaking his vows by sexing her up. Or maybe we get some 3 eyed crow backstory about leaving the nights watch to become a tree.
  • Actually it is a reference to all the people who swore they would never watch the show again coming back to see John Snow.

    It is known
    Hatorianvoodooratsteph_bDaniLady C
  • Umbers breaking their oath to the Starks and handing rickon to ramsay.
    Murderbear
  • GeorgeGeorge Astoria, New York
    Has to be a flat out reference to Lady Stoneheart, no?

    "No, she says. Call it Oathbreaker, she says. It was made for treachery and murder. She names it False Friend. Like you."

    Doubt we see her at all in the series though, honestly.
    steph_bOliviaD
  • LukeLuke Central Illinois
    It's mothers day. If we got LSH on Mothers day I would be so happy.

    I also think Oathbreaker refers to Jon. He is going to march on Kings Landing to finish what Rob started.

    I really think they are setting up a classic trajedy here. In trying to fulfill the Azor Ahai prophecy, Jon/Mel are just going to just make things worse.

    This is zombie movie rules only worse. We have seen Jason and the Argonaughts level skeletons in the White Walker army. Hell even dogs and horses come back.

    I don't think it's a streach to say that anyone who died and wasn't burned since the War of the Five Kings is coming back as a Wight soon.

    If Dany's vision of a burned out throne room is correct from the Wall to Kings Landing will be a wasteland of battlefield burial grounds.

    And any small fiefdoms left are going to be short on provisions since Winterfell was the major stockpile in the North and Kings Landing in the South. With Dorne probably going to war that leaves the Vale one of the only major powers not affected by this war. And that's assuming Littlefinger doesn't get up to more scheming.

    I'm really worried that we are going to get like 8 episodes of awesome Stark justice only to have and "oh shit" moment when the Wall comes crashing down and no one is truly prepared for what's coming.
    Elisahypergenesb
  • HeffHeff Connecticut
    We got the death of Tywin on Father's day, so it would be pretty fitting, actually.
  • OliviaDOliviaD Cincinnati, Ohio
    George said:

    Has to be a flat out reference to Lady Stoneheart, no?

    "No, she says. Call it Oathbreaker, she says. It was made for treachery and murder. She names it False Friend. Like you."

    Doubt we see her at all in the series though, honestly.

    I'll wave my lady stoneheart flag until the show ends. And then I'll continue to wave it as a book fan
    ElisaLady C
  • JamesJames southern California
    At this point in the show, how could Lady Stoneheart come out against Brienne? She literally has Sansa under her care and is in the process of delivering her to the only place that could offer her safety from the Lannisters and the Boltons.
    Elisatom_g
  • The Night's watch oath ends at death, so Jon does not break his oath. His watch has ended.


     Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.

  • AjasAjas Seattle, WA
    Broke Oath Mountain:
    1) Jon lops off Olly's head for treason
    2) Sam double-dog oath breaks, both the Nights Watch and the Citadel with his pink mast
    3) The Karstark/Umbers break their apparent fealty to the Boltons in a reverse Red Wedding (I'm betting the "gift" is Jeyne Pool).
    4) Jaime is still technically a Kingsguard, right?  Kevan maneuvers to strip his white cloak and send him back to Lannisport as Tywin's heir.
    5) Ser Robert Strong breaks his vow of silence to burp long and loud after eating the High Sparrow
    6) E+L=J ... if you know what I mean.
    James
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    Okay, so I have no doubt that the Umbers are going to show up with Rickon. The last time Bran saw Rickon, he told him and Osha to go to The Last Hearth. The ancestral home of the Umbers. (In the books it's widely suspected they headed to Skagos) And that was the last time we saw Rickon. You know, Rickon? The dead kid? The one Theon allegedly killed. I wonder if there will be any sort of issue there for Ramsay. Are people just going to buy that Rickon wasn't killed and conveniently after Sansa goes missing he pulls another Stark out of his ass?
    steph_b
  • i dunno, jaime just reminded us that he's an oathbreaker in e2.
    steph_b
  • JamesJames southern California
    Ajas said:

    Broke Oath Mountain:

    1) Jon lops off Olly's head for treason
    2) Sam double-dog oath breaks, both the Nights Watch and the Citadel with his pink mast
    3) The Karstark/Umbers break their apparent fealty to the Boltons in a reverse Red Wedding (I'm betting the "gift" is Jeyne Pool).
    4) Jaime is still technically a Kingsguard, right?  Kevan maneuvers to strip his white cloak and send him back to Lannisport as Tywin's heir.
    5) Ser Robert Strong breaks his vow of silence to burp long and loud after eating the High Sparrow
    6) E+L=J ... if you know what I mean.
    #3 -- If neither the Karstarks nor the Umbers betray the Boltons, "The Grand Northern Conspiracy" will have amounted to nothing more than "A Few Northerners Grumble Beneath Their Breath."

    #5 -- (Snicker)
  • KatCarlKatCarl Minneapolis, MN
    I 100% agree. I doubt Brianne of Tarth is about to break another oath after feeling like she had let down Catelyn for so long. The only person that is left that has an oath to *possibly* break would be Jon Snow. Now there is a question as to if he truly is under oath anymore- I don't think so. He died. Dead. Gone. Not his fault he came back. AmIright or amIrght?!
  • KatCarl said:

    I 100% agree. I doubt Brianne of Tarth is about to break another oath after feeling like she had let down Catelyn for so long. The only person that is left that has an oath to *possibly* break would be Jon Snow. Now there is a question as to if he truly is under oath anymore- I don't think so. He died. Dead. Gone. Not his fault he came back. AmIright or amIrght?!

    Breiane won't break an oath but Sansa will think she did and order her to kill Jamie. I'm not sure how the writers are going to have it make sense, but that's what I think. Maybe when they get to a northern castle and someone tells Sansa that oathkeeper is Ice melted down and Jamie gave it to Brianne.
  • I don't know how I would feel if one of the oathbreaking in the episode is Brienne not killing Stannis.  I know most likely he is dead because what is to gain with him being alive, but he does tell her to "do her duty" and her first duty was to find Sansa and Arya.

    Another might be the High Sparrow killing Loras.  I doubt Loras would survive the season and since the Reach army seems to be coming to KL, killing Loras maybe the catalyst.

    I don't know why the Umbers would bring Rickon to Ramsay now.  Unless Ramsay had recently gained Umber support, how would it look for the Umbers who had Rickon all this time to now present him?
  • I believe the Boltons have the Great Jon captive. So they would have their support. If GJ is captive Rickon may be a swap. Or maybe it will be part of the great northern conspiracy, to prove the Umbers loyalty then betray Ramsy when he needs them the most, saying "the Starks send their regards". Drop the mic
  • I'm going to say that if they surrender Rickon in any way they are traitors.

    Ramsay is too unpredictable, you could say he would hang onto Rickon out of self preservation, but what he did to the heir of the Iron Isles and the Heiress of Winterfell suggests differently. If they hand over Rickon they are accepting he will be maimed, and probably murdered.
    steph_b
  • LukeLuke Central Illinois
    edited May 2016
    My fanboy dream would be for the scene from the preview to end like this.

    Umber: I have a gift for you....Rickon Stark true King of the North and the North remembers...

    *cuts Ramsey's head off.
    steph_b
  • Ok, I was wrong. If they give Rickon to them that way, they are not traitors.

    Would Shaggydog eating Ramsay alive be thematically appropriate? A reversal of his murder of his brother?

    Can we see a direwolf tear Ramsay apart... Please?
    steph_b
  • Shaggy*DOG*!

    It's foreshadowing!
  • Yup I would be bad writing 4 Ramsey to have Rickon and not kill him or at the very least maim him.
  • Even if Ramsay learned his lesson and was wildly out of character kind to Rickon, putting Rickon in that situation is treason.
  • Ramsey would have to kill Rickon because, the youngest stark would have a better claim to Winterfell. He needs the Stark line wiped out.
  • LukeLuke Central Illinois
    Realistically how many allies does Ramsey even have at this point?

    A. His excuse for this dad's death was "poisoned by his enemies". You can't tell me a few of the Bolton guards don't start spreading the truth around. Because if Ramsey would kill his own dad obviously if your just some dude what chance do you have?

    B. I don't see how he talks his way out of feeding Walda to the dogs. He did that shit at what looked to be mid day with literally the entire keep right there. I mean in the show part of his army are still Frey forces right? Or is that a book only thing.

    I just don't see anyone but the most twisted Bolton loyalists sticking around long enough to die for Ramsey.
    Duncan Mac
  • There is a guy who claims to do subtitles for the show who was pretty spot on in his descriptions of episodes 1 and 2 who claims that the following happens in ep. 3 with regards to the gift:

    Text in white, select text below to read:

    The Umbers decide to ally with Ramsay because Jon let the wildlings through. The Umbers, being close to the wall, are the house that had the most trouble with the wildlings, including losing a daughter to them. As a result of Jon deciding to let the wildlings through, the Umbers decide to join the Boltons. They refuse to kneel and become their vassal, but they do want to ally themselves with the Boltons and to do so give Rickon and Osha as a gift.



    end of spoilers
  • I doubt Ramsay could kill Rickon even if that were the case, Rickon has a better claim to Winterfell as a male then a marriage alliance with Sansa.  Keeping Rickon hostage would better keep those lords not aligning with the Boltons at bay, unless Jon is good enough to convince them otherwise.  Anyway, outside of the Dreadfort, Karhold and the Crannogmen armies, what army is left in the North to face Ramsay?
  • There is a guy who claims to do subtitles for the show who was pretty spot on in his descriptions of episodes 1 and 2 who claims that the following happens in ep. 3 with regards to the gift:

    Text in white, select text below to read:

    The Umbers decide to ally with Ramsay because Jon let the wildlings through. The Umbers, being close to the wall, are the house that had the most trouble with the wildlings, including losing a daughter to them. As a result of Jon deciding to let the wildlings through, the Umbers decide to join the Boltons. They refuse to kneel and become their vassal, but they do want to ally themselves with the Boltons and to do so give Rickon and Osha as a gift.



    end of spoilers


    I don't know.  Has the show made that point clear enough to suggest that payoff?
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