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So I just finished up reading A Dance with Dragons......SPOILERS!

The_SauceThe_Sauce Pleasant Prairie, WI
in Game of Thrones
SPOILERS.

So I was just watching Lunch with Jim and A. Ron and brought up the fact I just finished the 5th book so I am not completely spoiler-proof, and A.Ron suggested started a forum topic about it. So I did.

Holy. Fucking. Shit.
Jon Snow..the treachery. I know GRRM is not opposed to killing to main character, but Jon Fucking snow. His story is one of the stories I have found most interesting in the entire series, and now he may very well be dead?! A lot of crazy shit happened in the last book, but of everything this sincerely made me a bit sad. There were some potentially amazing stuff coming up for his story arc. Man I hope he lives. Since I literally finished the book a day ago I haven't had a chance to dive into fan theories, but I feel like the only chance he has at living is if Melisandre intervenes and brings him back (like Thoros did for Beric) I don't know though. what do you think the future holds for Jon Snow? Do we lose him?

As for everything else, I have really lost interest in Daenaerys' story arc. I feel like she is a terrible queen and consistently makes decisions that will have the worst possible outcome. Fuck Mereen. When you are given ships to take your army back to to reclaim your throne, you do that shit. I dunno, I wish she would have starved to death. I will have more coming on this thread soon....back to work for now.

Comments

  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    Remember Jon's last words 'Ghost', the prologue was all about the warg Varamyar. Remember the ice cells below. My guess is that Jon will warg into Ghost and Melisandre will preserve his body in the ice cells below until she can figure out how to do a Thoros/Beric trick so he can help Dany beat the Others.

    Yes Dany's journey was a big yawn in Slaver's Bay. My suggestion to you is to re-read using the Boiled Leather combined Feast/Dance combined chapter listing. Both books are more enjoyable and make a lot more sense timeline wise because they occur at the same time and affect each other. My hope is that Fire and Blood will come. Dany will return to her Targareyan roots, learn to ride Drogon and take her new Dothraki hoard to overtake Volantis, raise hell, then head to Westeros to usurp Faegon the Blackfyre and beat the Others.

    SPOILERS ABOUND...please note these are my twisted theories and opinions :wink:
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Yeah, what Elisa said. I think there is a zero chance that Jon doesn't come back via some combination of warging and Melisandre. I mean, he was the 998th Lord Commander, right? There has to be something significant about the 1000th, and he had to die to make way for that. Hell, maybe he'll be the 1000th as well, but I also think it's interesting in so much as a commitment to the Night's Watch lasts for life, which Jon has now fulfilled. If L+R=J is true, there are many interesting possibilities for Jon that lie ahead. I'd be more shocked than about anything I've ever seen in fiction if Jon is just done.

    Also, as far as Dany goes, I think her Meereenese plot is more interesting and rewarding on multiple reads. The plotting that goes on between the Shaved Pate and Hizdahr is more complex than I took it for the first time through. A good read if you are so inclined is the Meereenese Blot blog, which did a series on re-evaluating the Meereen plot. http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/09/27/untangling-the-meereenese-knot-part-i-who-poisoned-the-locusts/

    I will say I am sort of nervous how well GoT maintains interest with yet another season of Dany not doing anything of note coming up. On the other hand, man, am I really looking forward to "Edd, fetch me a block."
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    @aron R + L = J is true. Jon Snow is the true heir of the Iron throne. Why would the Kings Guard like the Sword of the Morning be guarding the tower of joy if the king or heir were not inside.
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Yeah, you're preaching to the choir on that one. L + R = J is a theory in the same sense that gravity is.
    Elisa
  • davemcbdavemcb Melbourne
    Given that L+R = J is one of the biggest theories floating around the SOI&F universe I can see GRRM trying to run away from it but I honestly think there are enough breadcrumbs to put it together.

    I'm with A.Ron on the Jon will be bought back by Melisandre, be released from his vow to the Nights Watch and potentially fulfill the prophecy of Azor Ahai.

    I know everyone is sweating on Winds of Winter but it would be best to have the book out before the next season of GoT starts.
    Elisa
  • broompersonbroomperson the Iron Islands
    Jon ain't dead. Remember the Varamyr prolouge where he wargs his wolf as he dies (i think its a wolf if i remember). As you guys have already said Jon will probably be ressurected in some way involving warging or Melisandre and maybe both
    Elisa
  • The_SauceThe_Sauce Pleasant Prairie, WI
    A.Ron.Hubbard said:

    On the other hand, man, am I really looking forward to "Edd, fetch me a block."

    Oh man, yes! I probably cheered out loud when I read that part. So since yesterday I have been really diving into all of the theories and I like L+R=J. A LOT. I am glad my thought of Melisandre bringing Jon back is an actual theory and I didn't sound like a lunatic. To be honest, I had forgotten mostly about the Prologue (I had a bit of a break in the middle of the book....had to catch up in the Walking Dead comics.) So yeah ,that definitely makes sense.

    I am also really just curious to see the aftermath of the assassination attempt on Jon. Do the wildlings attempt to save Jon? What kind of rift will there be at the wall now, as Jon really was the most outspoken champion for having the wildlings there at all, let alone in the ranks of the watch. Who takes over at the wall now? Man. I wish the damn book would come out...I wanna binge read the shit outta that mofo.

  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    Or I expect the wildlings to raise hell and perhaps even try and take over the Night's Watch. Mel will need to work her magic quickly....
  • MarciMarci
    I just finished it yesterday! So much for my hope that TWoW would be out by the time I caught up, but I'm glad I finished before the start of the new season. I've been saving the spoilers section of all the podcasts for after I caught up, and now I'm going to binge on spoilers, speculation, and tinfoil hat theories until we finally have a nice fat new tome in hand!
  • GanGan
    edited February 2015
    Jon is coming back in some form. It is known.

    And I'm probably in the minority that doesn't think that Jon will choose to claim Winterfell because of some technical mumble-jumo of dying releasing his vowels. Gurm don't make things that easy for Starks and I don't think Jon would think that way either.

    I expect in the show Kit will remain because he's too popular of an actor to throw away but in the novels Jon's body will be destroyed and he will have to claim a new one. This way even if he does choose to claim kingship or whatever he'll have a much harder time proving his legitimacy.
    Elisa
  • JeramiahJeramiah Richmond Indiana
    edited February 2015
    Man, I tried to do audio books on audible of all of the Song of Fire and Ice books, but I think I got burnt out about half way through the 4th book and just decided to stick to the TV series instead. Now you guys have peeked my interest back up. I might have to give the books a whirl again.
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    Here's a suggestion read feast dance chapters combined - now that your done. It is so much more satisfying. There is a combined chapter list on boiled leather.com
  • ksa1001ksa1001 Plano, TX
    @Jeramiah I don't mind the audiobooks, the guy does a good enough job. 4th book is definitely the slowest, but five more than makes up for it. Link me if you need a copy.
  • KenzieKenzie Sanger, Tx
    Just going to throw this out there since someone mentioned it... I really hope that GRRM doesn't end with Dany conquering everything and everyone. At this point it just seems unoriginal and very fan fiction like (if you read fan fiction, you that every story ever ends with Dany on the Iron Throne). Plus I really dislike Dany. She's a terrible queen and I highly doubt anyone in Westeros will even follow her. So there, that's my rant. Please don't hate me. :smile:
  • KenzieKenzie Sanger, Tx
    edited February 2015
    Accidently posted that comment twice and couldn't figure out how to delete it so just ignore this.
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    @Kenzie I really don't think that is going to happen. But hopefully she will kick some ass and learn to train her Drogon. :wink:
  • KenzieKenzie Sanger, Tx
    @Elisa I hope she'll kick some Meereenese ass particularly her husband whatever his name was.
    Elisa
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    A friend of mine calls me the Alex Jones of Westeros because I believe Mance is Rhaegar.
  • wollwowollwo
    I also don't think Brienne is relly dead, but two fake-outs would seem a little lazy to me.
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    Brienne's not dead. She's with Jamie.
    Elisa
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    edited March 2015
    I'm curious how the warging will work if that's what they do with Jon. Only thing that makes sense is that he wargs into Ghost, his body dies and Melisandre resurrects his body. Otherwise they're recasting and I don't see that happening. 

    Only flaw I see with R+L=J is making it matter to the outcome. The only person now who can confirm it is Howland Reed. Where is he and why would anyone believe him? I suppose Bran could "see" it, but you have the same problem. If it's as simple as Jon knowing his parentage, that's good, but I don't see how he takes the throne or is viewed as the king with any credibility. Maybe an outside shot that Dany comes and conquers, and somehow is convinced of his legitimacy. 

    I suppose if you buy the High Sparrow = Howland theory, and he attains enough power or sway when the Hound defeats Robert Strong, then he could support Jon.
    trippy
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    I think there is something down in the crypts under Winterfell that will help prove it. Bran & BloodRaven may play some part in that.
    Elisa
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    Also interesting that Jon hasn't been shown to have any warging ability yet on the show, so that would be more out of left field if it happens at the end of the season. Makes me wonder if he just survives the attack, which is simpler.
    steph_bElisa
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    There's also Benjen if he returns, the Daynes, and even Lem Lemoncloak if he was Raegar's squire. Along with Howland Reed, Bran and even Meara and Jojen if he is still alive.
  • ShumShum Utah
    I think GRRM played the unreliable narrator card way too often in Feast and Dance.  First we hear reports that Davos is dead, only the find out Lord Manderly faked the whole thing.  Then we get reports that The Hound is alive, only to find out that someone stole his dog helm.  Then we get a first hand account of Brienne being hanged by Lady Stoneheart, only the get reports later on that she is off somewhere with Jaime, still alive.  By the time I got to Daenerys reportedly falling off Drogon, Stannis being killed by Ramsey, and Jon Snow being stabbed, I didn't know what to believe!  Why can't these characters die at wedding feasts with hundreds of witnesses like in the good old days!
    steph_bksa1001Elisa
  • jluzaniajluzania Denver
    Yeah, I can't imagine Jon is gone for good.  I can't imagine GRRM ending a book with such a cliffhanger only to come back in the next one and have it be exactly as it seemed.  Especially in a story where he's brought characters back from the dead with Beric and Catelyn and made it look like a character was killed only to reveal a magical bait and switch in Mance.  

    If he does warg into Ghost, would he be in him for a while?  It could be interesting to see him having to stay in Ghost long term and start to lose some sense of self, as Bran was warned with Summer.  I wonder if Mel will try to get him to return to his body and he'll resist her.
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    Remember the bodies can be put on ice under one of the castles along the wall.  That's where Mel will put John's until she figures out how to resurrect him...right before he permanently melds with Ghost.  OR maybe Bran and Bloodraven will help.

    Maybe Bran goes into the past and figures out R = L = J?

    Does anyone else think Bran will warg or help Jon train/fly a dragon in ADOS?


  • ksa1001ksa1001 Plano, TX
    jluzania said:

    Yeah, I can't imagine Jon is gone for good.  I can't imagine GRRM ending a book with such a cliffhanger only to come back in the next one and have it be exactly as it seemed.  Especially in a story where he's brought characters back from the dead with Beric and Catelyn and made it look like a character was killed only to reveal a magical bait and switch in Mance.  


    If he does warg into Ghost, would he be in him for a while?  It could be interesting to see him having to stay in Ghost long term and start to lose some sense of self, as Bran was warned with Summer.  I wonder if Mel will try to get him to return to his body and he'll resist her.
    Davos was another bait and switch in the books in the "dead...j/k" catagory
    steph_b
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    I think Jon will warg into Ghost and right when he is going to lose himself BAM Bran helps him out and reverts back to his body.
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