101 - "The Original"

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  • "swimmythafish said:


    I do not take them referring to Dolores as "the oldest host in the park" to mean she is the original. I think she's just the oldest one there. 
    What else would that mean?"

    She's the oldest host still operating with guests.   Everything older is in cold storage.

    Also:
    image

    Slavery in New Mexico Territory was never focused on black bondage as in the Southern states. New Mexico Territory never had more than a dozen or so black slaves because it had other forms sources of coerced labor, both Native American indentured servants and slaves, and Mexican peons. The economy of antebellum New Mexico Territory was similar to the Old South with a small aristocracy of Spanish-speaking and English-speaking landowners holding vast estates. While all almost all slaves were Indians, indentured servants came from a variety of backgrounds as individuals would sell themselves or family members into lifetime servitude to pay off debts.

    By the 1850s New Mexico had a thriving and growing economy that included extensive slave labor.  During that decade New Mexico slavers made a number of raids into Indian Territory which increased the number of enslaved Native Americans.  With the attention on Indian slaves, black bondage was not given much consideration. By the mid-1850s a number of fugitive black slaves from Texas arrived in the Territory.  The Territorial Legislature passed a law in 1856 which for the first time limited the number of free blacks coming into New Mexico in hopes of discouraging the fugitives’ flight there.  That law forced some New Mexico blacks to leave the Territory. 

    Then in 1859 the Territorial Legislature enacted New Mexico Territory’s first Slave Code.  The law restricted slave travel, prohibited slaves from testifying in court, and limited the owners’ right to arm slaves. This code was all implemented ironically to keep blacks out of New Mexico and preserve Native Americans as the major group of enslaved workers. 

    http://www.blackpast.org/aaw/new-mexico-territory-slave-code-1859-1867


    Elisa
  • @akritenbrink Yeah I was responding to two posts up not your second one. It doesn't make any sense for the corporate lady to be an android, the lead programmer wanted to capture her subdued angry facial reaction; why would he want to do this if she's already an android? Furthermore he's got to be the second-most familiar person with androids in the whole place second only to Ford, I wouldn't buy that he's working around an android so much and has no idea, especially when he's obviously paying so much attention to people's mannerisms.

    @A_Ron_Hubbard @Jim ;Keep in mind that this show has been in development for over two years, so I have no problem with the idea that they've penciled in a 5 season roadmap so far. 

    Re: plugging androids in instead of interrogation, I've gotta disagree. Code may not be able to "lie" but good luck making any sense of it. If these androids are supposed to be artificially intelligent then they will be constantly re-writing their code within a core set of parameters (and do you think androids comment their code to be human friendly? I THINK NOT SIRS. Other humans are bad enough). The programmers may fully understand the code in the base 'template' they load the freshly wiped hosts with, but when they're questioning them before the wipe, what does the 'lie' look like among millions of lines of AI-written code? What about sentience? If you're fishing for human properties in the hosts I don't see how trying to sift through tons of code is going to get you there. 

    Furthermore, how wise would plugging an unknown entity into your network be? Sounds like an enormous security problem, even if it were isolated it could eventually learn new information it shouldn't know and inescapably evolve into a HAL9000/SHODAN/Skynet bot and enslave/murder all humans and other such inconveniences. 

    Anyway I have never watched episodes of any show more than once shortly after airing, but I think I may start doing that with this show, I missed/forgot a lot in my single viewing of the pilot.
  • Hatorian said:

    Cory said:

    I'm really intrigued by Ed Harris's character. I thought he was a host until they established he's not. I wonder if he's from a rival company out to steal trade secrets? He's clearly a part of the larger picture that the Head Writer was talking about, but is that some kind of military project? An experiment in population control?

    I got the feeling he's not just a rival, but also a former compatriot/colleague or perhaps apprentice.  In the scene when he shot Teddy, didn't he say "It's great to be back!"?  Now that could mean he's been a guest before, but to me it felt more like he had been returning after a long absence.  As if he had been banish (if not imprisoned), and now perhaps forgotten as only Ford remained from the time that Harris's character worked there.

    I'm sure Ford would remember him, though.

    @cory

    He actually said "it's good to be bad" as in he enjoys playing a bad guy.
    Negative:

    image
    Cory
  • Not a coincidence that the robot's name is Dolores. Our Lady of the Sorrows indeed.
    Elisa
  • Not a coincidence that the robot's name is Dolores. Our Lady of the Sorrows indeed.

    Dolores?  I thought it was Mulva?
    ghm3KingKobraelgat0
  • @A_Ron_Hubbard @Jim and Wayne from Hawaii. In regards to Androids at home and what happens, that is almost exactly what is the premise of the TV show Humans (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humans_(TV_series) ) it's a good, not great show, but I am looking forward to season 2.
    Melonuskhypergenesb
  • Hatorian said:

    Haven't listened to the cast yet so this might have been discussed but why did they need an army of dudes wit machines guns when they went to sub basement 82? What were they expecting to run into where they needed that type of protection and firepower? They even said something like "you should stay back".

    You don't know that where the Bad Robots (pun intended) go. We also have HUGE rats living down there.
  • ghm3 said:

    Hatorian said:

    Cory said:

    I'm really intrigued by Ed Harris's character. I thought he was a host until they established he's not. I wonder if he's from a rival company out to steal trade secrets? He's clearly a part of the larger picture that the Head Writer was talking about, but is that some kind of military project? An experiment in population control?

    I got the feeling he's not just a rival, but also a former compatriot/colleague or perhaps apprentice.  In the scene when he shot Teddy, didn't he say "It's great to be back!"?  Now that could mean he's been a guest before, but to me it felt more like he had been returning after a long absence.  As if he had been banish (if not imprisoned), and now perhaps forgotten as only Ford remained from the time that Harris's character worked there.

    I'm sure Ford would remember him, though.

    @cory

    He actually said "it's good to be bad" as in he enjoys playing a bad guy.
    Negative:

    image
    My bad. Thanks for confirming.
  •   I was looking forward of  to the first episode of WEST WORLD, with the history of HBO making fantastic shows, I was fully expecting the first episode to lead to a week of counting down until the next episode.

      However reality has led to disappointment.  Extremely underwhelmed with the first episode.  Hopefully, the writing and directing picks up, and they spend some quality time with developing a plot.  I am willing to spend another hour of time watching the next episode, in hopes of the show delivering the expected result.

      But sadly all shows can't be must watch TV hits.
  • KingKobra said:

    Hatorian said:

    Haven't listened to the cast yet so this might have been discussed but why did they need an army of dudes wit machines guns when they went to sub basement 82? What were they expecting to run into where they needed that type of protection and firepower? They even said something like "you should stay back".

    You don't know that where the Bad Robots (pun intended) go. We also have HUGE rats living down there.
    Haha. All jokes aside that scene needs some explaining. Wtf is down there. Maybe the critical failure they talked about was indeed "bad" robots and those robots are in storage there and are still dangerous. Or if some theories are true that this isn't on Earth then maybe something else entirely.
  • LukeLuke Central Illinois
    You know the more I think about it when then say "critical failure 30 years ago" and the fact they gave Michael Crichton a story credit are we sure this isn't like a soft reboot situation like Jurassic World is? Is it possible that this is indeed the same Westworld from the film just 30 years later?
    wildwildwhit
  • WonderedObjectWonderedObject SAN Francisco, CA
    edited October 2016
    Hatorian said:

    KingKobra said:

    Hatorian said:

    Haven't listened to the cast yet so this might have been discussed but why did they need an army of dudes wit machines guns when they went to sub basement 82? What were they expecting to run into where they needed that type of protection and firepower? They even said something like "you should stay back".

    You don't know that where the Bad Robots (pun intended) go. We also have HUGE rats living down there.
    Haha. All jokes aside that scene needs some explaining. Wtf is down there. Maybe the critical failure they talked about was indeed "bad" robots and those robots are in storage there and are still dangerous. Or if some theories are true that this isn't on Earth then maybe something else entirely.
    Not sure if this was mentioned before but anyone get the feeling that floor was used for something else before? It seemed pretty "decorated" to be just a cold storage. Almost looked a bit like an abandoned mall or amusement park. Had some of what looked like some random statues around. Definitely not your average storage container.
    ghm3
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    @Hatorian Don't sweat it. As a wise man once said "God damn, feels good to be wrong."
    Hatorian
  • FYI - 'Ken Wins' spotting (BrBa / Saul reference).
  • Hatorian said:

    KingKobra said:

    Hatorian said:

    Haven't listened to the cast yet so this might have been discussed but why did they need an army of dudes wit machines guns when they went to sub basement 82? What were they expecting to run into where they needed that type of protection and firepower? They even said something like "you should stay back".

    You don't know that where the Bad Robots (pun intended) go. We also have HUGE rats living down there.
    Haha. All jokes aside that scene needs some explaining. Wtf is down there. Maybe the critical failure they talked about was indeed "bad" robots and those robots are in storage there and are still dangerous. Or if some theories are true that this isn't on Earth then maybe something else entirely.
    I'm guessing we eventually will find out, if it is important ;)

    If you think about it, how mans always build on top of what we built previously (we build up not down). So what we saw could very well have been an old office/mall, but we may not find out much detail outside of a passing comment. The globe in the "lobby" may be significant to place the location of the basement.
    Elisa
  • @Hatorian yeah, why *don't* they know what to expect down there?  odd lack of surveillance in the facility itself (especially considering that they're going in with a well-armed commando-looking team) considering the sort of coverage they have of the park itself.
    Doctor_Nick
  • Based off the preview cast, episode 1 cast, and the way this thread is going, I think you have to stay within the show's world building and not wonder too much.  Like other Michael Crichton projects, the concept crumbles under any mechanical questioning.  I too wonder how they reset an entire world at the end of the day.  How is their infrastructure set up and how do you have (at least) 83 sub-levels?

    These are likely never going to be answered and they're the wrong types of questions to be asking.  Similarly, the moment you really think about the mechanics behind Jurrasic Park, it becomes a joke really fast.  I think you have to give Westworld that same suspension of disbelief and take none of this as "hard" science.  It's just as fantastical as Westeros in a lot of ways.
    voodooratKingKobrachriskElisaphoenyx1023
  • II thoroughly enojoyed the first episode - a lot.  Interested in where this is going.  Any major question I had (eg, story continuity when a host dies, how do they clean up so quickly, etc.) seemed to be asked by others on the podcast.  I was worried I was the only one missing something.

    I will say this....having a rare name like "Dolores" it made me laugh while listening to the podcast and the episode.  Every time I heard "Dolores", I immediately thought someone was addressing me.  =)
    Elisa
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    Luke said:

    You know the more I think about it when then say "critical failure 30 years ago" and the fact they gave Michael Crichton a story credit are we sure this isn't like a soft reboot situation like Jurassic World is? Is it possible that this is indeed the same Westworld from the film just 30 years later?


    I think the phrasing is "we haven't had a critical failure in 30 years." If so, that could also mean the park is 30 years old and they haven't ever had one. 


  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    edited October 2016

    This is real real interesting http://uproxx.com/entertainment/i-am-99-99-sure-westworld-isnt-even-taking-place-on-earth/ basically it's positing that westworld doesn't take place on Earth. Would explain a few things.

    Love this article and the line of thought. That's why I was curious about that mall looking area where the storage is, and all the escalators. Why so many levels and how long has the park been there? I like the question about how long people live now. Makes sense to ask since diseases have been cured. Other medical improvements would likely follow.

    Also agree with the questions about the armed security men accompanying them to storage. Doesn't quite seem to match up with what we've been told about past critical failures. Another nitpick - obviously Ford was already down there, and the space itself was huge, so what's with all the water flooding the elevator?
  • edited October 2016

    Hatorian said:

    KingKobra said:

    Hatorian said:


    Edit: quote system formatting hell


    @WonderedObject Yeah you're absolutely right, I remember seeing that and thinking wtf it looks like a mall/hotel lobby and then quickly forgetting about because of the next scene. 

    And if I recall correctly in the original Westworld movie the guests arrived in an underground tram thing, so this sub-level 83 could very well have formerly been the level the guests used to enter the park on. I think this is actually very good evidence that this is a loose sequel continuing on from the movie, and that the Yul Brynner terminator bot was the "critical failure" mentioned from 30+ years prior.
    WonderedObjectElisa
  • edited October 2016
    I think in regards to the loops, with Delores and Teddy seemingly looping daily...I think to use MMO terms, Sweetwater is the newbie area...great for a day trip to Westworld, but if you have an extended stay, you are probably encouraged and expected to travel beyond Sweetwater to towns and areas that presumably have longer cycles...In MMOs you have your little starting area with a handful of short quests, and then you are expected to move on to bigger and better things. remember this quote:
    "With considerable effort and lack of sleep, I've managed to massage events to inspire Hector to head to town a week early."
    Obviously, there are cycles beyond town that last well beyond a day, and those loops are carefully interwoven. 

    ElisaDoctor_Nick
  • HeffHeff Connecticut
    I'd like to make a prediction; I think we'll find out by the end of the series/season that Ford has either been working to replace himself with a robotic copy implanted with his intelligence/consciousness, or has already done so.

    His constant adjustments to allow access to older memories and more immersive human qualities and subconscious elements could be seen as an attempt to allow him to be as close to a real human as possible.

    It's also possible that he has the memories and personalities of lost family and friends backed up somewhere, and is looking to "resurrect" them into Hosts in their likeness, who will then act as close to the real person as possible.
    ghm3ElisaDoctor_Nick
  • I am all in on the theory that Westworld is actually on another planet, or "world." I was also struck by the conversation where they referred to Teresa's (the corporate lady's) "rotation." It sounded like it's very far away. Wouldn't you know they'd discover a habitable planet and it's already got flies?

    About Ed Harris - he and Delores could be in cahoots, with her screaming and showing fear as a cover. Why would he close the door before raping her, or whatever he was going to do, to keep another robot from seeing it? They could be going behind closed doors to compare notes for their planned rebellion, or whatever.

    Could "The Original" refer to Bernard? I'm convinced he's a robot, and he's in on the plan for an uprising or maybe the leader of it.

    The woman playing Teresa is a fantastic Danish actress, but it bothers me for some reason when an actor has only the slightest hint of a foreign accent when speaking English. I want either no foreign accent at all or a heavier foreign accent. I realize this is arbitrary and silly on my part, but when it's an actor playing a native English speaker with a slight foreign accent, I feel as though they are trying to fool me and they failed. Because of the slight accent, her character seems more like a robot than the actual robots. Even if she turns out to BE a robot, you'd have to wonder why the others don't speak like that. Having said that, the actress is brilliant and her English is a hell of a lot better than my Danish.
    Elisa
  • I don't have much evidence to back anything up, but I'm kinda hoping that the Ed Harris character is some kind of Agent Smith from Matrix Reloaded or Revolutions. Maybe some type of coding that malfunctioned and has now been given powers of a guest and an idea of what is beyond Westworld. That could explain his wanting to know the details of the hosts and why no attention has been given to him. He also could be another unexpected result of the update because he mentioned being back when the update started showing problems. 
    Elisa
  • TimKTimK Grand Rapids, MI
    Jim and A. Ron seem to think based on the podcast that there were previous "worlds" that were not old-west themed based on what Ford says about the host's previous "professor" personality.  To me though it sounded like that was just an old storyline inside of Westworld itself that has since been retired and the hosts re-purposed.  He calls it a "horror narrative" and mentions a cannibal cult "out in the desert".  Doesn't sound to me like an entirely different "Horrorworld" that existed before Westworld.
    Elisapodcartfan
  • @TimK its more than just them ;) I think most think this is just an iteration of a "world" and they change it up or create a new world whenever they want.
    Elisa
  • Loved this! Only one thing I found to be a real problem - $40K a day? Overhead and back-office expenses aside, you're telling me I can't cause more than $40K in damage in a day on vacation in WW? I would think shooting up the saloon and obliterating a couple of bots Negan-style would cost the company hundreds of thousands of dollars at least - how is this company making any money? An operation like this must be incredibly expensive to run, so it's hard to imagine they could get away with *only* charging $40K a day.

    My only thought (and this was kind-of alluded to in the episode), was that this whole thing is being sponsored/subsidized by someone or something else, like a military, government etc. for some larger scheme and that the whole idea of host/client interaction is to gather data for something larger?

    Great show - great podcast.
  • GredalBee said:

    Based off the preview cast, episode 1 cast, and the way this thread is going, I think you have to stay within the show's world building and not wonder too much.  Like other Michael Crichton projects, the concept crumbles under any mechanical questioning.  I too wonder how they reset an entire world at the end of the day.  How is their infrastructure set up and how do you have (at least) 83 sub-levels?

    These are likely never going to be answered and they're the wrong types of questions to be asking.  Similarly, the moment you really think about the mechanics behind Jurrasic Park, it becomes a joke really fast.  I think you have to give Westworld that same suspension of disbelief and take none of this as "hard" science.  It's just as fantastical as Westeros in a lot of ways.

    Agreed. But also, in a world where they've figured out how to cure disease and allude death, create androids essentially indiscernible from humans/animals (and God knows what else), I'm willing to believe they've figured out how to reset the park pretty efficiently without too much explaining needed. One of those things I can just go with and won't care if they address it or not

    Elisa
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