103 - "The Stray"

1356

Comments

  • I like the direction @Murderbear and @Cory are going with Arnold's death. Anybody read Permutation City?
    Cory said:

    So, it's been thirty years since the last "incident." Arnold "died" thirty years ago. The Man In Black has been coming there for thirty years, you could say he was "born" there. My guess is that Arnold loaded his consciousness into a host (MIB) and is now trying to figure out or maybe even right whatever Ford has been doing. I'm guessing he'd be able to change the system so that he's off limits somehow. (This is the gap that's hardest to bridge because why would Ford allow him to stay and seemingly give him VIP status? I think he enjoys the challenge of him solving this puzzle he's built and he also wouldn't want his friend to die a second time.)

    Maybe their philosophies really changed and he was against whatever Ford was doing and setup this new body for when he died. Everyone thinks it was suicide but Ford knows better. Cause he killed him! dun dun duuuuuuuuun!

    Yes, I think he committed suicide (successfully) attempting to download his consciousness into a computer at least, not necessarily a host body right away.  I'm thinking he may have downloaded his consciousness into the mainframe, his consciousness may even be scattered and he may be having trouble controlling his (wi-fi?) communications.  It maybe have taken him 30 years to gain this much control.

    They could go a multitude of ways though really, at this point.
  • Eric1stOfHisNameEric1stOfHisName LosAngeles
    edited October 2016
    Don't think it's been mentioned before but is there any chance of Dolores's name being significant? Dolores in Spanish means pain/pains, i found this mildly interesting, any thoughts?
    ken haleCarrieShevsElisa
  • cbspock said:

    I sort of wish they would make it a little easier to tell the difference between host and guests, although I think the color of the hats has something to do with it. 

    I'm fairly sure that's intentional, though, as blurring the lines of human and robot is an obvious theme, it seems like the showrunners are creating this confusion in the viewer to illustrate their theme.


  • Thanks, @pavlovsbell. I really need to rewatch. I like what the show is doing with Dolores' flashbacks. (Now that I realize that's what was going on with her.) I find the whole William thing a little coy. Is it or isn't it a flashback? I think they're being vague to set us up for a "stunning" reveal that may not be all that stunning.

    I don't see this at all.  If William is a flashback, then Dolores finding the gun and shooting the villain is, as well, which falls in line with her awakening, her conversations with Bernie, all the shit with her dad.  So basically, everything is a flashback?
    manhattnik
  • Nobody's mentioned that in Teddy's conversation with Ford, he mentions the concept of God for the first time that a robot has, to my knowledge.  Somebody in these forums (sorry I forgot who) mentioned that Ford's "new story" will be the introduction of mysticism and religion to the robots.  It seems like his "backstory" for Teddy does just that.

    Teddy: "[Wyatt] claimed he could hear the voice of God."

    Cut to Anthony Hopkins, literally raising his eyebrow, grinning like a creep.

    Teddy: "We started down near Escalante..."

    Cut to Hopkins, looking crestfallen.
    Elisapodcartfan
  • How does Bernhard get Dolores in and out of park unnoticed? Also interesting that she's always dressed when they talk but all other hosts are naked when interacting with the employees. This could connect to the VR/physical environmentquestion.
    Elisa
  • Doctor_NickDoctor_Nick Terminus
    edited October 2016
    Yeah, it's actually Our Lady Of Sorrows. Seems pretty meaningful. 

    Don't think it's been mentioned before but is there any chance of Dolores's name being significant? Dolores in Spanish means pain/pains, i found this mildly interesting, any thoughts?

    Elisa
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    Can we talk about the noise we heard when Wyatt's crew attacked Teddy? During the day and at night time there was some kind of otherworldly noise. I guess it could have been some kind of horn but it sounded like a friggin dinosaur or something huge.
    Underwood
  • JamesJames southern California
    bsmither said:

    "First memory, then improvisation, then self-interest, then ?????????"

    Empathy.


    Profit!
    manhattnikMurderbearjodwilso
  • PeggyB said:

    How does Bernhard get Dolores in and out of park unnoticed? Also interesting that she's always dressed when they talk but all other hosts are naked when interacting with the employees. This could connect to the VR/physical environmentquestion.

    It's not totally unnoticed. It gets mentioned by the woman (who went out to the mountain last episode). She says why do you keep take my her out if she's been fixed.

    Can we talk about the noise we heard when Wyatt's crew attacked Teddy? During the day and at night time there was some kind of otherworldly noise. I guess it could have been some kind of horn but it sounded like a friggin dinosaur or something huge.

    I think it's a "creepy" sound they make to scare those who come close to them. Could be a horn or just a sound one or more of them make.
  • WonderedObjectWonderedObject SAN Francisco, CA

    Can we talk about the noise we heard when Wyatt's crew attacked Teddy? During the day and at night time there was some kind of otherworldly noise. I guess it could have been some kind of horn but it sounded like a friggin dinosaur or something huge.

    A SMOKE MONSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I kid, sounded like a horn.
    manhattnik
  • LukeLuke Central Illinois
    edited October 2016
    One thing that is really telling about the MIB might be more than human is the fact that he took multiple shots of the simulated ammo point blank and didn't flinch.

    This episode makes it clear that these are a lot like modern simulation ammo. It's more akin to a hardcore paintball. We saw one shot from like 50 feet out knock a guy on his ass and leave a huge welt.

    The MIB was cool with possibly taking one right to the head. He for sure took like 6 straight to the chest without flinching.

    The more I think about this maze and the deeper game the more I think it's going to lead to Arnold and some secret lab where he managed to download Himself.

    Hell they even confirmed that the entire way they control the Hosts is based off his code and theories. It's entirely possible he did succeed in downloading himself, and made a sentient civilization in the Park. But then the company basically fucked with his code and gave him a lobotomy just like they do to the individual hosts . It could be Ford is trying to restore that original program.

    This might also explain why they only immobilize but don't completely deactivate old hosts. It's possible they are all networked together and it's the husk of Arnold's downloaded consciousness that networks them all together and allows them to function. To destroy them would eventually make them way less able to function as one unit.
    manhattnik
  • This episode also made me think of the original Deus Ex game endings and how relevant they potentially seem to Westworld:



    First ending: Ford's choice
    Second: Arnold's
    Third: Bernard's
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    The exposition dump we got was a little clunky. I prefer when backstories are given out a tad more organically... but lots of interesting stuff.
    amyja89manhattnik
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    voodoorat said:

    @Murderbear ford's actually a host occupied by arnold's consciousness and the m.i.b. is ford's consciousness in another bot*.

    *note: this is not a serious theory and there is no evidence to support it.  also, i'm murderbear's consciousness loaded into a third bot.

    yeah, that's totally what's going on. Although I do wonder what exactly MIB is trying figure out - wouldn't he know everything about everything considering he was one of the founders? 
  • edited October 2016
    If Arnold was the Man In Black, then why would the park monitors be so nonchalant about his actions? Remember in Ep. 2 when Stubbs was asked if the MIB should be slowed down, Stubbs said, "That guest gets whatever he wants."

    That seems like a strange thing to say if the MIB is Arnold.
    Elisa
  • That's easy enough. If Bernard has no idea about Arnold I doubt anyone but the highest of the high in the corporation know the real origin story.

    If Arnold was the Man In Black, then why would the park monitors be so nonchalant about his actions? Remember in Ep. 2 when Stubbs was asked if the MIB should be slowed down, Stubbs said, "That guest gets whatever he wants."

    That seems like a strange thing to say if the MIB is Arnold.

  • edited October 2016

    That's easy enough. If Bernard has no idea about Arnold I doubt anyone but the highest of the high in the corporation know the real origin story.

    So Arnold faked his death, uploaded himself into a customized human-like host body, escaped the park, and then came back and posed as a high-profile guest for 30 years?
  • Doctor_NickDoctor_Nick Terminus
    edited October 2016
    I was rewatching the second episode and the figure at the center of the scalp maze looks quite a bit like Orion the Hunter.

    image
    image


    @darwinfeeshy  I'm not a fan of that theory about Arnold being the MiB, but not because the park surveillance team would know who Arnold was.
    darwinfeeshyElisaMelonusk
  • cbspockcbspock San Antonio, Texas
    Maybe the map / maze is really the garage? Maybe the bicameral brain is becoming one?



    Elisa
  • CoryCory New Scotland

    Can we talk about the noise we heard when Wyatt's crew attacked Teddy? During the day and at night time there was some kind of otherworldly noise. I guess it could have been some kind of horn but it sounded like a friggin dinosaur or something huge.

    A SMOKE MONSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I kid, sounded like a horn.
    Like a dragon horn?  I wonder if it burns their lungs?  Or maybe the horn will bring the dome down? If that happens, the only place that's safe will be under a dumpster!
    WonderedObjectweeniegirlmanhattnik
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    ken hale said:

    If William is a flashback, then Dolores finding the gun and shooting the villain is, as well, which falls in line with her awakening, her conversations with Bernie, all the shit with her dad.  So basically, everything is a flashback?

    Why would all of that need to be flashbacks too?
  • CoryCory New Scotland

    I like the direction @Murderbear and @Cory are going with Arnold's death. Anybody read Permutation City?

    I have not, but I have seen the TNG episode when the old guy downloads his conscinousness into Data.
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    aberry89 said:

    voodoorat said:

    @Murderbear ford's actually a host occupied by arnold's consciousness and the m.i.b. is ford's consciousness in another bot*.

    *note: this is not a serious theory and there is no evidence to support it.  also, i'm murderbear's consciousness loaded into a third bot.

    yeah, that's totally what's going on. Although I do wonder what exactly MIB is trying figure out - wouldn't he know everything about everything considering he was one of the founders? 

    If Arnold was the Man In Black, then why would the park monitors be so nonchalant about his actions? Remember in Ep. 2 when Stubbs was asked if the MIB should be slowed down, Stubbs said, "That guest gets whatever he wants."

    That seems like a strange thing to say if the MIB is Arnold.

    It could be as simple as only Ford knows who he is, as no staff from back then sees to still be around.

    I must have deleted this part in my first post, but I wondered if the MiB could be a relative of Arnold's, who gained some inside information from Arnold before his "death", information that has led him on this 30 year quest.  A quest to help Arnold's consciousness regain regain coherency?  Or freedom?  Or control?
  • cbspockcbspock San Antonio, Texas
    Why was the security guy, I forget his name, trying to cut the head off of the robot after it went stray? Why not just take it back to the garage intact?



    MurderbearElisa
  • CoryCory New Scotland

    I was rewatching the second episode and the figure at the center of the scalp maze looks quite a bit like Orion the Hunter.

    image

    Or could it be Arnold at the centre of a huge machine, like the guy in Babylon 5, or when Lt. Barclay become super intelligent and built an interface in the holodeck that one episode.
  • UnderwoodUnderwood Philadelphia, PA
    edited October 2016

    Can we talk about the noise we heard when Wyatt's crew attacked Teddy? During the day and at night time there was some kind of otherworldly noise. I guess it could have been some kind of horn but it sounded like a friggin dinosaur or something huge.

    A SMOKE MONSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I kid, sounded like a horn.
    HA! First thing it reminded me of, was the sound the cannibal tribe in Bone Tomahawk made. Spooky stuff.
    WonderedObject
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    edited October 2016
    So on a few of the theories - 

    1. WW is on another planet - was listening to the Watch podcast and they brought up that the phone conversation between Bernard and his (ex?)wife. It made it seem like special communication that couldn't be done on a phone. Still find this theory odd though - as the set designer for WW said Nolan told him to think of this as 50-100 years in the future. Not only does space travel have to have become routine in that time, but they had to have built the park at least 30 years ago and had people coming regularly enough to support it. We're talking today about getting to Mars in 15-20 years, which might be optimistic. Technology does tend to snowball, but the distance is a big physical limitation.

    2. William is the MIB - Dolores has a flash of the MIB before she shoots the other host, and this appears to be shortly before she arrives where William and his friend are camped. Would seems to disprove that theory. 

    Chris Ryan on the Watch did mention how the lobby where William comes in on the train does appear to be somewhat similar to the underground area near the cold storage.

    3. Bernard is an android. I really like this. His 'wife' may be participating in the act, and his child may be an implanted memory. Some appear to think Ford's slow way of speaking with Bernard is similar to how he speaks with the hosts, though he seems to speak to everyone that way. Also seemed that he was trying to trigger something by mentioning Charlie. It also makes the expository dialogue a bit more purposeful. 

    I hadn't noticed, but people are also saying the other staff treat Bernard differently. Though a couple of problems I have - I feel like his interactions with Dolores make him seem a bit more intuitive than I'd expect an android to be. It's especially odd if the concern about the hosts is that they're exerting any sort of free will. Clearly Bernard seems to have that. On a meta note - so far the only black regulars on the show would be androids, which is kind of lame. 


    My theory on the milk baths - I wonder if in the initial construction that the hosts are 3d printed, just enough to create a framework. Then the techs go in and replace/install specific parts to give them flowing blood and lifelike organs. Could be that only skeletons and muscles are printed and the rest is installed later.

    Also think it would be cool if the hosts could be dunked in those baths and it allows them to self-repair. This would help account for how quickly they're able to get put back out. 
  • there was a disembodied "ghost in the machine" in gibson's neuromancer (dixie flatline) too.  the way they load memories and personas onto the hosts it seems very likely they will play with that idea (they kind of have already explicitly when ford was evoking lazarus in the first ep), perhaps even a shifting consciousness or a kind of directing hive mind that can inhabit different hosts.
    Doctor_Nick
  • voodooratvoodoorat Atlanta
    edited October 2016
    cbspock said:

    Why was the security guy, I forget his name, trying to cut the head off of the robot after it went stray? Why not just take it back to the garage intact?




    i got the impression that it was just easier than trying to get the whole body out of that hole. *edit* and that the part that would allow them to diagnose what went wrong was in the head.  which is not coincidentally the part that it destroyed with the rock.
    manhattnik
Sign In or Register to comment.