Can't we just forget this election and keep Obama?
this is the weirdest thing to me, honestly. obama is broadly pretty popular, he's got like 55% approval rating per gallup (this compared to gwb's ~25-30% at around the same point in his second term), why such a stinging repudiation of his legacy? i'd understand if it he was unpopular or if the economy was awful, but he's not and it's not.
You're right. He's doing a great job and is popular with a lot of people. Hmmm, I wonder what else it could be? What else is different about that guy.....?
Hillary Clinton is not popular, didn't understand her vulnerability in the Midwest and made strategic errors. According to the Weeds podcast she had field offices in El Paso and Arizona and didn't set foot in Wisconsin. I think there are a bunch of pissed off people in the Rust Belt who attach the start of downfall of their way of life to pro-trade Clintonism, and she didn't appreciate that was the exhaust port on her personal Death Star.
I was really hoping that this outcome would send your nation's economy into such a devastating tailspin that I could pick up a Vive for cheap. But so far the market actually seems to be *up*? Things just keep getting stranger.
give it a while, once we remove all banking regulations there's a decent chance we'll have a replay of 2008 before too long. unfortunately it might mess up your economy too again.
I just wanted to say how much I appreciate the level-headed, mature conversation that is going on in this thread - over 400 posts long, and not one insult, argument, or any rude words! I think that speaks very well for the fantastic community we have here at Bald Move. Thank you all!
Obama saying he was 'encouraged' by his talks with Trump means that he's either lying to keep the angry side of the nation calm, or, what I personally suspect, that The Donald is u-turning on pretty much everything that he spouted during the campaign. I can't wait until' the Trump voters realise that they have been well and truly played.
Obama saying he was 'encouraged' by his talks with Trump means that he's either lying to keep the angry side of the nation calm, or, what I personally suspect, that The Donald is u-turning on pretty much everything that he spouted during the campaign. I can't wait until' the Trump voters realise that they have been well and truly played.
I keep hoping the same thing. That this was all just a "character" he created in order to reach his goal. Either way, he's our president now and this is a great opportunity to show the other side that we can "go high when they go low". All this talk about changing the electoral college is ridiculous IMO. It just makes us all come off like sore losers.
I don't know if Trump is going to do all the crazy stuff he said. I do think that if he sticks with the Brightfart guy and all those other clowns he was using as his goons. Buckle up! There is talk of Bannon as chief of staff.
I was really hoping that this outcome would send your nation's economy into such a devastating tailspin that I could pick up a Vive for cheap. But so far the market actually seems to be *up*? Things just keep getting stranger.
Im a casual trader so by no means an expert but it is very suspicious what the financial institutions did. Leading up to the market it was tanking on a possible trump presidency and then when he won it started going up. Makes little sense. I really think the financial institutions expected Hillary to win, drove the market down on purpose so that when Hilary won they buy Low and when she lost they bought anyways cuz there was no real reason for the market to be that Low anyways. And if you don't think that's possible talk to the many banks that are currently either fined or under investigation for market collusion on things like currencies and commodities.
@trippy you make a good argument, and I would add to that by saying that an electoral college revolt would likely cause a civil war; the trumpers will not go quietly. HOWEVER, the electoral college is in place for exactly this reason, and I would be thrilled to see them serve their purpose.
As I was not on the forums the night of the election it was rather entertaining to start at page one and see everyone go from this...
....to this....
to this..
Never experienced and election like that. Wow. wow, holy fuck. After a couple days out, I went from utter shock, to sadness, to anger, and now - resolve. Yep, from the White House, to the Senate, to the House and to the Supreme Court (probably) Rebupians will be the majority. People don't have an excuse to not get involved anymore. It's not someone else's problem to fix, it's ours. A part of me feels if Hillary won there would be a false sense of security among the people who want and need change. If she got elected would Muslims still be wrongly targeted? Yeah. Would the rights of women continue to be carved away, Yeah. And it would perhaps not be brought to attention like it will be now.
I know a lot people can't stand him, and I fully understand - but I really dug Russell Brand's take away from the election.
“The fact that Donald Trump can be president of the United States is sort of not what’s important,” he said. “The point is the conditions have occurred in which Donald Trump becomes [president].”
Plus keep in mind we still don't really know who won the popular vote; right now Clinton is up by a razor-thin .2% margin but even now only 92% of the vote has been counted:
Part of the issue of the democratic party is their base is largely composed of younger voters. And younger voters are notably fickle. I teach college, and the number of students who didn't vote or even register and are now super upset that Trump won is incredible.
People misunderstand American elections completely. If you want to make a difference in 2018, the thing to do is NOT getting into these crazy political arguments with Trump supporters like many people think. The thing to do is to make sure that that friend of yours who considers him or herself to be apolitical, but is generally socially liberal, that their vote matters a lot.
I'm sure you and many of us have noticed the sudden shift in the last 24 hours, with many members of this website not only telling POC, LBGT, and women that we should tolerate and be accepting of the right, but pretending that not doing so means that we just wanna stick to an echochamber, are trying to take the moral high ground, are just as bad as the the alt right, and a whole bunch of other logic that anyone with even a semblance of logical thought would see is absolutely ridiculous. The crux of the matter is this:
Why are you targeting this criticism towards minorities, lbgt, and women, why do you feel the need to tell them that they are the issue, not the xenophobia, sexism, and racism? That's it's all just a difference of political opinion, when all three are inherently moral issues that have nothing to do with politics whatsoever since they existed before modern politics. You really can't see how ridiculous that sounds? Who are you to tell people who you can't very clearly can't actually empathize with, how they should feel and act? You're honestly telling people that they should welcome backwards and outdated principles treat the people who'd give them no time of day whatsoever and would rather sling a racial slur, defend a rape, tell them they shouldn't exist or that there's something wrong with them, or kick them out of the country with productive discussion when news:WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT FOR LITERALLY DECADES!! >:(
MLK had the perfect words to describe this situation:
This statement is more true than ever after last night, as i've been told all day by different users that I should stop overreacting at the fact that half of America actively voted to take my rights away, that I should stop overreacting about shit like this happening near where I live, that I should stop overreacting over being called a nigger on the walk home last night. No, i'm not gonna be a kind arms welcoming gentlemen towards people who'd never do the same for me. And i'm not gonna apologize for that.
So I implore any person who feels the need to tell minorities, LBGT, or women how they should feel, act or behave towards the people who view them as subhuman based on the way they were born, stop it, turn your attention elsewhere and stop acting like us, the victims, are the issue.
EDIT:BEFORE ANYONE KEEPS COMING IN HERE WITH REVISIONIST HISTORY
Originally Posted by Haly
Because it doesn't work, as this election's shown. As long as the side you want to vilify hold the voting majority you can't win any victories without making inroads with them. Fairness doesn't come into it; only what works and what doesn't.
Originally Posted by Crossing Eden
They weren't even the voting majority, Hillary Clinton won the popular vote.
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy
At the end of the day, it boils down to this.
Q: Why would you vote for a man who clearly is racist, has many "issues" with women, (insert 1000 other negative traits).
A: Because he said he'll lower my taxes.
That's pretty much it? Fine. You're not racist. You're not a misogynist. You're not a climate change denier, supporter of sexual assault or believer that LGBT should not have equal rights and what not.
Your're a squeaky clean, lovely person.
But why do I not get to point my finger at you for voting for a man who clearly represents and stands by those things?
Because you only cared about taxes? Or...what?
White supremacists are feeling like they're relevant now. That was BEFORE Trump even won. People WILL now face more racism in America. I've seen the result from Brexit.
RUDY GIULIANNI will likely be Attorney General........in a time where we are trying to sort out the way police treat minorities in America.
Supreme court justices will not be so favourable towards LGBT communities.
Trump can EASILY repeal executive order Obama made to allow immigrants to have genuine work and life prospects instead of hiding and taking exploitative under the table work.
You voted for a person who will do these things. Why can I not criticise you for it?
I just need to accept that you decided to fuck me over as long as you feel a guy who refuses to manufacture his goods in the USA is going to bring jobs back to the USA, because something something MLK wouldn't be getting all uppity like this?
This mindset of "hey, don't you dare look at me like that! I only like what he said about taxes/elites, that doesn't make me a racist, xenophobe, liar, con artist too!" is both confusing and infuriating.
So a lot of people were saying we should try and find compromise, problem is, we've been trying to do that not only for the last 8 years of Presidency but for decades.
Treating us like equals shouldn't be considered a compromise, it should be an inherent thing that people do, treating black people, LBGT people, minorities in general shouldn't be a controversial thing to do.
.........
So I'll have to disagree with Aaron and give my regards to everyone telling me to unite behind bigotry.My answer is No.
@joepinetree I would agree. I had a very good conversation with a younger friend of mine. She was not going to vote. I think that she thought her vote didn't matter. I explained to her that sure individually your vote may not matter, but when 76 million of people like you say the same thing, well that is a voting block that could shift the future of this country. The biggest problem for getting to the younger vote is trying to get past the millions that have been duped by the YouTube videos that say it's all rigged. That your vote doesn't matter. Education is seriously lacking and personally I am lucky that my mother instilled in me that I "must" vote so my voice is heard. There are just too many people that have bled, sweat, and teared to get me this right.
I would also agree that pointing fingers and demonizing "the other side" is exactly the wrong thing to do. If anything from this election we saw that the infighting and complacency caused major things to happen. All I can hope is that this renergises folks to become more involved.
i agree with what you're saying @Gan, it shouldn't be up for debate whether gay people or brown or muslim or female or whatever people deserve equal treatment. but the fact is, on some level it is--someone who has expressed clearly racist/xenophobic and sexist beliefs was just elected president and lost the popular vote by a razor-thin margin--and righteous indignant anger that it shouldn't be up for debate doesn't change that--it energizes people who already agree but it doesn't change minds. what might change minds, over time, is more people coming to the same realization that you (and i, and all progressives) have: that we're not so different after all. in fact, i'm certain that will change it--as people who came of age in obama's america come into their own--but i don't think any of us want to wait for that, we can't just wait for a majority minority america and if this resentment doesn't get alleviated, i'm not sure we'd want to anyway: things will get worse before they get better if this population that is willing to overlook all these *isms just to kick the "liberal" elites in the teeth's anger isn't mitigated. maybe a trump presidency will dull that anger, when they see firsthand that it isn't that easy to "bring back" mayberry (which was always fictional anyway) and factory jobs (in the face of a global economy), i don't know, or maybe these people will turn on him when he's forced to govern. we'll see, but i don't think it's a mistake to think about where this sentiment comes from, and i don't believe that 25% or whatever of all voting-age americans are unqualified racists/sexists/etc, they may be willing to forgive it--it's not disqualifying to them--in a similar way that many of us forgive bill clinton his personal failings to some in-their-minds greater good.
edit: and when i say "we're not so different after all", i'm including (some, maybe most) trump supporters: they're our neighbors and cousins, and there but for life experiences that exposed me to diversity might be i. who's to say?
also it's worth remembering that one reason she lost, aside from the mostly rural white wave, was that in the most important places she didn't get nearly the support from democrats and the democratic coalition that obama got, had she gotten those voters she'd have been fine. instead his supporters stood by--some voting third-party and some staying home--while his legacy was fatally wounded, it's likely now that nearly everything he accomplished will be rolled back.
I bet there are a significant number of Obama--->Trump voters, which really defies the appeal to pure intolerance idea.
True, I also think a good number of the "Obama coalition" voted for Gary Johnson. Look at the deficits in Florida, PA, and Michigan, and how many he siphoned off both candidates. I don't blame people who voted for Gary Johnson as " wasted " votes. In retrospect The dems nominated an establishment candidate when the country was in a populist mood.
Actually, the number of people who switched from Obama to Trump is very small. The much bigger number is the number of people who voted for Obama then stayed home. Wisconsin had the lowest voter turnout in 20 years. Trump had fewer votes than Romney did.
I don't think this sentiment is actually true. There can be decreased turnout AND vote switching.
"In 2012, 21 percent of Wisconsin voters told exit pollsters that they or a family member belonged to a union. They broke for Barack Obama by 33 percentage points.
This year, just as many voters said they were in union households — and Clinton won them by just 10 points. The numbers and the swoon were similar in Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania."
Actually, the number of people who switched from Obama to Trump is very small. The much bigger number is the number of people who voted for Obama then stayed home. Wisconsin had the lowest voter turnout in 20 years. Trump had fewer votes than Romney did.
Comments
Hate trumps love.
I think that speaks very well for the fantastic community we have here at Bald Move. Thank you all!
There is talk of Bannon as chief of staff.
PS definitely get a Vive. They are pretty sweet.
"Just had a very open and successful presidential election. Now professional protesters, incited by the media, are protesting. Very unfair!"
This guy...smh
People misunderstand American elections completely. If you want to make a difference in 2018, the thing to do is NOT getting into these crazy political arguments with Trump supporters like many people think. The thing to do is to make sure that that friend of yours who considers him or herself to be apolitical, but is generally socially liberal, that their vote matters a lot.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=223875420&postcount=1
POST written by Crrossing Eden via NEOGAF.com
The influx of moderates telling us to tolerate sexism, xenophobia, and racism all day
#1
I'm sure you and many of us have noticed the sudden shift in the last
24 hours, with many members of this website not only telling POC, LBGT,
and women that we should tolerate and be accepting of the right, but
pretending that not doing so means that we just wanna stick to an
echochamber, are trying to take the moral high ground, are just as bad
as the the alt right, and a whole bunch of other logic that anyone with
even a semblance of logical thought would see is absolutely ridiculous.
The crux of the matter is this:
Why are you targeting this criticism towards minorities, lbgt, and women, why do you feel the need to tell them
that they are the issue, not the xenophobia, sexism, and racism? That's
it's all just a difference of political opinion, when all three are
inherently moral issues that have nothing to do with politics whatsoever
since they existed before modern politics. You really can't see how
ridiculous that sounds? Who are you to tell people who you can't very
clearly can't actually empathize with, how they should feel and act?
You're honestly telling people that they should welcome backwards and
outdated principles treat the people who'd give them no time of day
whatsoever and would rather sling a racial slur, defend a rape, tell
them they shouldn't exist or that there's something wrong with them, or
kick them out of the country with productive discussion when news:WE'VE
BEEN DOING THAT FOR LITERALLY DECADES!! >:(
MLK had the perfect words to describe this situation:
This statement is more true than ever after last night, as i've been
told all day by different users that I should stop overreacting at the
fact that half of America actively voted to take my rights away, that I
should stop overreacting about shit like this
happening near where I live, that I should stop overreacting over being
called a nigger on the walk home last night. No, i'm not gonna be a
kind arms welcoming gentlemen towards people who'd never do the same for
me. And i'm not gonna apologize for that.
So I implore any person who feels the need to tell minorities, LBGT, or
women how they should feel, act or behave towards the people who view
them as subhuman based on the way they were born, stop it, turn your
attention elsewhere and stop acting like us, the victims, are the issue.
EDIT:BEFORE ANYONE KEEPS COMING IN HERE WITH REVISIONIST HISTORY
compromise, problem is, we've been trying to do that not only for the
last 8 years of Presidency but for decades.
Treating us like equals shouldn't be considered a compromise, it should
be an inherent thing that people do, treating black people, LBGT people,
minorities in general shouldn't be a controversial thing to do.
.........
So I'll have to disagree with Aaron and give my regards to everyone telling me to unite behind bigotry.My answer is No.
I would also agree that pointing fingers and demonizing "the other side" is exactly the wrong thing to do. If anything from this election we saw that the infighting and complacency caused major things to happen. All I can hope is that this renergises folks to become more involved.
https://outdoors360.com/mike-rowes-opinion-people-voting-not-voting-election-nothing-short-perfect/
https://www.facebook.com/jesse.beukema/posts/10104397916696602
This year, just as many voters said they were in union households — and Clinton won them by just 10 points. The numbers and the swoon were similar in Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-voters-who-heavily-supported-obama-switched-over-to-trump/2016/11/10/65019658-a77a-11e6-ba59-a7d93165c6d4_story.html
There goes any pretense at all that Donald Trump cares at all about LBGT people.
BTW, for context members of this group believe in gay conversion and shock therapy.
But Trump held up a rainbow flag and said he cares about us during his acceptance speech? L oh fucking L.