That last shot! The rains are here. Nothing but gloomy skies ahead for Nora as Kevin escapes to the sunny outback. He finally escaped and all it took was watching the story of his life go up in flames. Man this show knows how to tie imagery to themes and situations.
Also, I'm glad they briefly revisited Nora's reasoning behind leaving Kevin after his admission of seeing Patty and that Kevin is still angry about it. It was the only thing that bugged me last season, and giving it more explanation has me at ease with it. They both have lines they can't cross with each other, despite having already crossed them ages ago. Even their sex seems like love making paint-by-numbers at this point. Going through the motions because who wants to be alone at the end of the world?
Wonderful, tragic stuff.
@A_Ron_Hubbard I looked down at my phone for a brief second and then looked up and saw Kevin talking to a koala. There isn't much more peak TV than that! :P
Riveting episode from start to finish. And also highly unnerving at times.
Only complaint is the song over the opening credits. I get what they are doing thematically, but I just don't think these songs match the editing of the credit sequence and it is very jarring for me. The sequence was cut to fit last years tune so perfectly and it doesn't seem like they are doing any re-cutting to match the beats of the chosen songs (understandably, given the amount of time it would take for each one, but it is really distracting. Plus I think the tone of these songs don't quite match the tone of the credits.
But hey, super minor complaint for an exceptional episode.
@Dansbury I think you are spot on. There is no doubt in my mind that Nora is actually pregnant. And an IUD has just the slightest chance of failure that this show is likely to prey upon
I almost wonder, in the very Leftovers way of denying anything and everything our characters want, that Kevin, free from the shackles of his old life and story and filled with a renewed sense of life, will end up dying trying to perform a "miracle" his new flock demands while Nora, who seems like she has nothing else left and is clearly fatalistic, will get in the machine somehow and it won't work. Just like the touchscreens, it just won't let her pass through, and she'll be stuck. Maybe she'll even envy Kevin's release. I think they'll both be stuck in a box of their own making, quite literally, and each will get the opposite of what they want.
I almost wonder, in the very Leftovers way of denying anything and everything our characters want, that Kevin, free from the shackles of his old life and story and filled with a renewed sense of life, will end up dying trying to perform a "miracle" his new flock demands while Nora, who seems like she has nothing else left and is clearly fatalistic, will get in the machine somehow and it won't work. Just like the touchscreens, it just won't let her pass through, and she'll be stuck. Maybe she'll even envy Kevin's release. I think they'll both be stuck in a box of their own making, quite literally, and each will get the opposite of what they want.
I was thinking something along these lines before this episode even began - there's definitely a reason why they're showing us her struggles with technology - and when the metal detector was going off at the airport I became even more convinced...until it was revealed that it was her watch. There's something to that idea though..
Maybe I'm remembering it wrong but I felt like the guy in the desert was hinting he said he would kill the baby too. When he was asking "would you kill a baby" it was it was more about why him answering that way was wrong. As killing the baby for the greater good seems like the "right" answer. I wonder if they are looking to weed out people who are looking for closure. And someone who would logically think that out is someone on a search for closure to what happened to their loved ones. Morally they may be opposed to a sort of assisted suicide in their machine. Where as saying you wouldn't kill the baby shows you are looking only to reconnect with your loved ones. In that case they are willing to send you wherever the machine sends you.
I think that what they are looking for are people who would question the premise. The original trolley problem involved no supernatural element. The question as posed in the leftovers includes a supernatural element, as you have to foresee that one of the babies would cure cancer. Maybe they are trying to weed out people with any sort of magical thinking, and the answer they are looking for is "how would you know this?"
Still curious about the explosion, and the guy at the airport that was ready for a nuclear event. There are currently no nuclear power plants active in Australia, but it has 33% of the world's uranium. In the Melbourne area there is a place called French Island that was a proposed nuclear site that never happened, and a gov site called ARPANSA which monitors all UV and nuclear radiation levels for the entire continent. Not sure where I'm going with this, but just thought it was interesting, seeing since Nora was trying to get blasted by some form of radiation, there has apparently been some sort of explosion, and we are waiting for the apocalypse.
I think that what they are looking for are people who would question the premise. The original trolley problem involved no supernatural element. The question as posed in the leftovers includes a supernatural element, as you have to foresee that one of the babies would cure cancer. Maybe they are trying to weed out people with any sort of magical thinking, and the answer they are looking for is "how would you know this?"
Thematically at least, there seems to be some kind of relationship between these questions and the questions that Nora has asked people who were applying for departure benefits....
Maybe I'm remembering it wrong but I felt like the guy in the desert was hinting he said he would kill the baby too. When he was asking "would you kill a baby" it was it was more about why him answering that way was wrong. As killing the baby for the greater good seems like the "right" answer. I wonder if they are looking to weed out people who are looking for closure. And someone who would logically think that out is someone on a search for closure to what happened to their loved ones. Morally they may be opposed to a sort of assisted suicide in their machine. Where as saying you wouldn't kill the baby shows you are looking only to reconnect with your loved ones. In that case they are willing to send you wherever the machine sends you.
The guy in the desert and Kevin Sr. both said they wouldn't kill the baby. While Nora said she would. It's to show you that it isn't about the actual yes or no, it has some deeper meaning that they are looking for or it's simply a trick question.
It will be interesting to see where they take it from here.
The repeated use of the A-Ha song "Take on Me"...everyone remember the video? I think (and by that I mean I'm practically certain!) that we're being told something about the nature of the departures - the dual worlds depicted in the video, people being drawn in and out of the different realities etc. The fact that the song is played a few times (2? 3?) in an episode where Kevin is in a hotel room in Australia talking to his TV (and later, there's a fire in that hotel room too) and Nora is on a quest to go wherever the departures went...I don't think that it's coincidental!
So what the show is saying is that all the departed people have been transported to a 2D pencil sketch world...
The repeated use of the A-Ha song "Take on Me"...everyone remember the video? I think (and by that I mean I'm practically certain!) that we're being told something about the nature of the departures - the dual worlds depicted in the video, people being drawn in and out of the different realities etc. The fact that the song is played a few times (2? 3?) in an episode where Kevin is in a hotel room in Australia talking to his TV (and later, there's a fire in that hotel room too) and Nora is on a quest to go wherever the departures went...I don't think that it's coincidental!
So what the show is saying is that all the departed people have been transported to a 2D pencil sketch world...
And they said they'd never answer that question...pfft! :P
I keep wondering what the point was of the "unbelieving scientist" in the room. I'm assuming she's done this before, because the other woman takes it in stride, doesn't kick her out. So she must have some benefit; she must not negatively affect their success rate and perhaps positively affects it. I think it's because she's not debating the plausibility of the machine, like good scientists would, but is rather debating whether what happens afterwards is positive. I think she exists to bolster their scientific credibility and as a smoke screen to the the question that would affect their bottom line: whether the radiation is a correlation or a causation to the departures.
I don't think these people are intentionally fooling people, but in order to "help" they're resorting to a little trickery, like religions do.
I don't think we've seen the last of them.
----
I've been hearing a lot about how Kevin left Nora, how Kevin ended things. (Said in a way to suggest Kevin was the initiator and the one unwilling to work through things.) To me, Nora 100% did all the leaving. This episode is full of it, and other episodes too. Kevin had become invisible to her. It's like to her, he was already gone.
But but ... I don't want Kevin and Nora to split up. This episode broke my heart.
Same! I thought Kevin was incredibly cruel to Nora (if I were to pick sides). After the final scene of episode 1, I knew it was going to fall apart for them. I hope this isn't the last we see of Nora. I've always felt like she brings refreshing skepticism to a world where characters are so quick to believe and seek patterns in chaos.
I'm not terribly interested in the moral question from a plot perspective, but I am somewhat interested in what Nora's answers said about herself. Two things that struck me were:
1. The lack of unease regarding killing a baby to cure cancer, once she was reassured that it was not her child and that the baby would not suffer. I was shocked by the flippancy of, "Children die everyday, what's one more?"
2. The egocentrism of, "And I get to cure cancer? Of course I nod." Making it about herself, as if she gets to be a hero, is disturbing to me. Where is the altruism?
Perhaps the question is more important to the greater story of the season regarding sacrifice and altruism. I get more vibes of Kevin Sr and Kevin Jr from that, but surely Nora has part to play in that.
it's not what your answer is, it's how you answer. they are playing "good doctor, bad doctor", trying to purposely make you uncomfortable and gauge your reactions, classic interrogation technique.
I'm not terribly interested in the moral question from a plot perspective, but I am somewhat interested in what Nora's answers said about herself. Two things that struck me were:
1. The lack of unease regarding killing a baby to cure cancer, once she was reassured that it was not her child and that the baby would not suffer. I was shocked by the flippancy of, "Children die everyday, what's one more?"
2. The egocentrism of, "And I get to cure cancer? Of course I nod." Making it about herself, as if she gets to be a hero, is disturbing to me. Where is the altruism?
Perhaps the question is more important to the greater story of the season regarding sacrifice and altruism. I get more vibes of Kevin Sr and Kevin Jr from that, but surely Nora has part to play in that.
Nora hasn't been altruistic at all, which was kind of the point while sympathetic, if we go back it's almost always been about her.
At first when I saw them reject Nora based on her answer to the baby killing question, I thought it was her quickness to say yes “what’s one more baby?”. BUT, after thinking about it more… what if she’s pregnant? What if the blood test showed she was positive, which puts greater importance to that question: Will you kill a baby to save cancer? Would you kill your baby with radiation to see your departed family again? “What’s one more baby?”
Also, the symbolism of her giving up the baby to get on the bus is obvious. For a brief time she had a baby in her arms, she was, as the lady asked, a mother. And when the opportunity came for her to board the bus, she ditched the baby quickly. I think that lady was a plant and it was all a part of a test, or if it wasn’t a plant, the symbolism is there that Nora will do anything, including abandoning anything in this world (from a random baby, to her family) to be with her departed family. The scientist said as much: the odds of it being a great place is very minimal. But to Nora that doesn’t matter; “What’s one more baby?”
I had this thought as well, but with a slightly different take. Did anyone else notice when Kevin and Nora were fucking in the airport the camera went out of focus and focused in on a sign which I thought (and could be wrong, not seen a screenshot) was a baby-changing sign. If it was I take that as an indication that they were conceiving a child. Or, perhaps, two.
What if Nora gives birth to twins, one of which could go on to cure cancer, but only if the other dies? In dying, it would essentially be sacrificing itself for the good of all humanity - a la Jesus.
Maybe I'm as insane as Kevin, but this show has me thinking on a different plain to anything else on television. Best TV series ever made and this was one of the absolute best episodes in my opinion. We're all speculating but I think the honest truth is from this point on, no one has ANY real idea of where Lindelof and Perrota are going to take us.
So are we betting nuclear explosion or is that too obvious given the dude ranting about it at the airport earlier in the episode?
From what I've been reading, there is only 1 nuclear reactor in Australia, OPAL, it's for medicine and reasearch, located near Sydney. Very possible that it has something to do with the doctors Nora went to see. I'm thinking this is how Nora gets her aged look and burns from the flash forward. She will go to the nuclear site for answers, get to close to ground zero and get radiation sickness. I don't think she will ever get blasted with the "device", and it's very possible the device is what caused the explosion, or that is what Nora will think anyway. And I don't know if it even matters
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I miss the GR this season. When Kevin initially saw Evie, I got so excited that they somehow, some way would be back. So much of the story and character growth revolved around the GR in S1 and S2, that there's a bit of a void in my feelings about the show (how's that for irony). My hope is that the machine scam Nora is determined to track down is organized by the GR, though at this point it seems very unlikely.
Nora/Radiation machine theory: Nora does in fact get to the machine. When she attempts to "go through" it doesn't work. Like the airline check in, like the parking garage toll booth; technology fails her. Emotionally beaten and broken, she ends up the way we see her at the end of episode 1. Nora cursed.
What if the machine works and the flash forward is Nora on the other side, where you arrive with no memory of your past life. So you get to reunite with your lost family, but neither you nor they recognize it as a reunion.
I think this is the first show I've watched where i enjoy it, but don't get what they're trying to accomplish-- or is that the point? Granted I've used this show as background noise to some extent, but I still watch it, just while on my phone sometimes-- so i might be missing concepts. I just don't see many outcomes that don't have a LOST-esque feel to it. I find Nora obnoxiously selfish (i guess that's her character) and I don't get or really care about the biblical connections to Kevin. Also, the fact that Kevin is helucinating again seems to weaken his past experience with seeing Patti. Lastly, the reason why I know I probably don't get it on the level as others is because I haven't gotten emotional over the previous episode or this one AT ALL.
With that said, I find the acting great and the storyline (even though my comments above) to be unique and interesting. I guess this show doesn't speak to me on the level it does others, and that's OK.
What if the machine works and the flash forward is Nora on the other side, where you arrive with no memory of your past life. So you get to reunite with your lost family, but neither you nor they recognize it as a reunion.
The look in Sara's (Nora) eyes when she was asked if she knew Kevin gave me the impression that she did but she is actively trying to forget him
Comments
Also, I'm glad they briefly revisited Nora's reasoning behind leaving Kevin after his admission of seeing Patty and that Kevin is still angry about it. It was the only thing that bugged me last season, and giving it more explanation has me at ease with it. They both have lines they can't cross with each other, despite having already crossed them ages ago. Even their sex seems like love making paint-by-numbers at this point. Going through the motions because who wants to be alone at the end of the world?
@A_Ron_Hubbard I looked down at my phone for a brief second and then looked up and saw Kevin talking to a koala. There isn't much more peak TV than that! :P
What if Nora gives birth to twins, one of which could go on to cure cancer, but only if the other dies? In dying, it would essentially be sacrificing itself for the good of all humanity - a la Jesus.
Maybe I'm as insane as Kevin, but this show has me thinking on a different plain to anything else on television. Best TV series ever made and this was one of the absolute best episodes in my opinion. We're all speculating but I think the honest truth is from this point on, no one has ANY real idea of where Lindelof and Perrota are going to take us.
Do actual Australians like Koalas (the animal, not the people in costume)? Or is it mostly just tourists?
With that said, I find the acting great and the storyline (even though my comments above) to be unique and interesting. I guess this show doesn't speak to me on the level it does others, and that's OK.