502 - SPOILERS!! - "The House of Black and White"

Director: Michael Slovis
Writer: David Benioff & D. B. Weiss
This thread is for book readers or people who don't care about spoilers.  PLEASE DO NOT DISCUSS LEAKED EPISODES.   


  • Is there a live watch recording tonight?
  • edited April 2015
    I have a feeling Bronn is going to die in Dorne and that's really going piss me off.
  • ksa1001ksa1001 Plano, TX
    D&D REMIX! Love all the changes and choices they've made thus far.
  • Jaime always disappoints me in how he falls for Cersei's crap. Kudos to Kevan for tearing her down. That was epic. 
  • joschmanjoschman Fargo, ND

    I have a feeling Bronn is going to die in Dorne and that's really going piss me off.

    Yep. Anything that seems too good to be true in GOT usually is... A better wife and a bigger castle for Bronn is too good to be true.

    Bad news for show watchers, good news for House Stokeworth.
  • But I wanted to see that hair pulling Lady Stokesworth meet her end by Bronn's hands...
  • I agree with the bummer Bronn speculation. Hopefully it doesn't happen too early into the season. We need some Bronn/Jamie roadshow.

    Also, did anyone else lose their shit at the Jaqen H'ghar reveal? I've been seriously on board with all of the theories about his return. And I'm starting to wonder if the excessive Meryn Trant namedropping this episode might lend credence to the Syrio tinfoil too. Seems like the double Ds are doubling down on fan service to balance out all that gratuitous beetle-smashing...
  • Since they had BreeAnn find Sansa, maybe Bronn will find Tyrion.

  • I have a feeling Bronn is going to die in Dorne and that's really going piss me off.

    At least we'll most likely be treated to an epic fight scene between Bronn and Areo Hotah if this does happen. Because someone is getting their head chopped off with his badass longaxe.


  • The really sad thing is that were already 20% over with Season 5. :(
  • davemcbdavemcb Melbourne
    edited April 2015
    @A_Ron_Hubbard really liked the Brienne saving her neck from a noose comment on the cast, although it sounded like Jim picked up on the hint

    Also nice Matrix style bullet dodging on the R+L=J topic at the end!!! That must have been tough to not spill the beans
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Haha, thanks.  It's what makes the cast fun for me, imagining a bunch of book readers giggling in the shadows.  I felt like I was walking a fine line on discussing Littlefinger's marriage proposal, but shit, it was all there, and it's not like I really know what the hell is going on with that plot exactly.  I imagine Sansa = Fake Arya only she'll be trained / equipped by Littlefinger to kill Ramsay on their wedding night.  Chaos will ensue, we'll be left not knowing who lives and who dies, and then Jon will get the Pink Letter, which will setup a season 5 finale up nicely.  Which will perhaps imply Littlefinger is behind the plot to make Jon break his vow of neutrality?  Which will somehow weaken Stannis?  Which will profit Littlefinger how?  I'm kind of fuzzy on this point, but that's how I'm seeing the lay of the land now that the Mance / Able story is off the table.
  • CJwriterCJwriter North of the Wall... MT
    I think you're on the right track with the marriage proposal. But I think that Pyter sees Sansa as a pawn to sell to the Boltons for their alliance with the Eryie. Never trust a word Littlefinger says (he's told us that already). He's always scheming on how to make it another rung up the ladder. Don't think there will be a plan to kill Ramsay. I think saving Sansa will be what redeems Theon from being Reek. As for Breann, I see her journey as one of glorious failure. She has a good heart and tries to do the right thing, but fate thwarts her yet again.    
  • From things I've read around the Internet Im afraid Sansa won't be treated much differently than FArya. Same creepy sex scenes. I hope it's wrong tho because the last thing the fans need is another rape fiasco.
  • It would be a nice change to see Theon come to his senses on his own and not be basically forced into saving FArya/Sansa by Mance and his crew of bad ass Wildling women.
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    I just read some speculation on Reddit that Brienne might take over the Mance / Abel role.  I like Theon redeeming himself by saving Sansa, I like that a lot.  If they decide to throw in Stannis' march on Winterfell in with that, you'd have a giant cluster fuck of confusion going down at Winterfell, which let's face it, is exactly what we're left with at the end of Dance, and I think that would work really well.  Then Jon gets the Pink Letter, and he doesn't know any more than we do.  Seems pretty strong, and a fairly elegant way to essentially bring about the same story beats as the books do.  Might even be better, as Sansa > Fake Arya, and if I'm honest, some sort of ninja version of Brienne and Pod > Able and the Spearwives.  
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    edited April 2015
    I read an article out of New Zealand a few weeks ago which had Brienne fighting FrankenGregor. I don't even know what to make of that. Or how it would even get there. Brienne and Pod at Winterfell could be good but as long as they drop the buffoonery and schtick. It just has the wrong gravity for the Winterfell plot line.
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    edited April 2015
    WIC.net has the story out of NZ about Brienne and Gregor

    I hope if it's true that the remix sort of spoils that CleganeBowl will be cannon. I really want it to be a thing. I love me some Sandor.
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    CleganeBowl can still be book cannon and just not happen on the show.  More and more, it looks like we'll be getting a lot of that stuff.  I'm with you on the Brienne and Greggor business.  How?  Why?  Where?  We got 8 episodes to go, but that's a lot of plot bending!
  • It would be kinda cool to see her fight Gregor but seriously - why? Unless it's trial by combat for some crime Cersei pins on her.
  • Hey, thoughts on the whole everyone meets up at the same inn all the time in GOT: To compare it to our own history, there was not necessarily lots of lodging along a road in medieval times. There are only so many towns and most likely an inn or village possibly a days ride from each other. It would make sense then that everyone traveling on the same road in the same direction would be stopping at the same place for lodgings and food. Otherwise they would have to camp out in the woods and would have to cary their own shelter and food with them. It would be easier to just stop regularly wherever there in an inn.

    Also GRRM released a new chapter recently that deals with Sansa's marriage. I wonder if they will keep to that story line?
  • joschmanjoschman Fargo, ND
    I know it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that Lady Stoneheart is not going to be in the show, but what if... I mean it seems like the show is really setting up Brienne to look like a failure in that she has failed to secure Sansa and or Arya. Also, characters such as the Hound last season and Littlefinger this season have easily recognized that she is working for the Lannisters in some facet due to the gaudy sword she's packing. It's probably all just fanfare but it does seem like the show is setting up a Brienne failed Catlyn and has betrayed her as well scenario. I know in order to have Stoneheart it would take a lot of explaining. I don't even think show watchers would remember who the brotherhood was anymore. Oh well... I wish the show would go in that direction, but I kind of agree with others that she's probably going to follow Littlefinger and Sansa to Winterhell. She kind of alluded to that when she said Sansa isn't safe with Littlefinger.

    Maybe... Brienne goes to Winterhell with Sansa and Littlefinger, plays that role while Jaime is down in Dorne playing his non-book role in season 5. Then in season 6, they both end up back in the riverlands, the show re-introduces the brotherhood and reveals Stoneheart and the Jamie/Brienne plotlines re-merge with the book?
  • uncle_guncle_g CA, USA
    edited April 2015
    When I heard about the marriage proposal I immediately thought of the Alayne sample preview chapter from WoW which I only recently downloaded and read.

    But @A_Ron_Hubbard 's comment above lays out a very compelling re-jiggering of things.

    And that led me to start thinking.... what if these sample chapters are fakes? 

  • The samples are real. He released them for previous books as well. They may be edited or revised before final publication.

    I think the Alayne chapter was released to reassure readers that the Sansa story is on track in the books and that we shouldn't freak about show changes.
  • CJwriterCJwriter North of the Wall... MT
    As for the new Lord Commander Snow I see him sending Maester Aemon away with Sam and Gilly to prevent Melisandra getting a hold of what little King's blood is left in that hoary old timer. I could see their story getting truncated just going to Braavos, but I'd love to see Sam become a Wizard at the Citadel. Don't know if there's enough TV story to tell that tale though.
  • CJwriterCJwriter North of the Wall... MT
    edited April 2015
    Overall as a long time book reader, since Game came out in '96, I like what the double Ds are doing with the TV version. Which I call 'Game of Thrones' the books are 'A Song of Ice and Fire'. I do have some experience taking apart GRRM's world in the Song of Ice and Fire RPG. I encouraged the players not to worry about wrecking George's storyline, that it wasn't sacred. I told him so myself over cocktails at a Convention a few years ago. He seemed very interested in the changes we had made. He asked how things were working out and laughed when I told him the way the players had twisted the plot. Nice guy really. Fun to talk with and drink with. He did hate it when folks interrupted and gave him their ideas for the story though.  
  • CJwriterCJwriter North of the Wall... MT
    On the 'mechanics' of the iron coin of the Faceless Men: I think it works as an ID/business card/Get-out-of-jail-free-coin (a favor). Any Braavosi seems to understand their meaning (a natural part of their culture). If someone/no-one hands you one and says, 'valar morghulis' you help them in anyway you can (and say the countersign 'valar dohaeris'). On the other hand if you find one lying on your door-stoop or in your coin-purse you know your time is up.   
  • @CJwriter  - Assuming that's true, then if memory serves, Arya  unwittingly (or Semi-wittingly?) used it correctly on the guy she stabbed in the neck shortly after the Red Wedding.

    Is there a generally accepted answer as to how/why Jaqen allowed himself to get caught in the first place?  My guess is that if we will ever find that out (in the show at least) we'll find it out this season...
  • CJwriterCJwriter North of the Wall... MT
    @G Indeed
  • So now at 20% in, do we suppose they will get through Books 4 & 5 (minus Kingsmoot; plus a few book spoilers here and there) by season's end?

    On the topic of Brienne....It's a shame, because I love her character, but I'm getting tired of seeing her fail.  I'm ready for her to meet with some sort sort of victory or a glorious end.  Given her beef with Stannis over Renly, it seems like maybe she's destined to have a confrontation with him?

    Lastly, If you look in the background when she names Lady Sansa, I noticed the entire Inn seems to be paying attention to the exchange.  I'm left wondering if this will be problematic for Balysh?  (Or was the entire Inn part of his entourage? Or did his men "eat all the chickens"?)


This discussion has been closed.