U.S. Politics the Third

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  • So, it's not a great look for Antifa to tell people to commit acts of violence while also literally telling a white "ally" that his white DNA makes him inherently inferior (you know, the thing that actual nazi's believe). I. shit. you. not.


    But yeah, we're all hypocrites, so I guess we can just rationalize our actions while the world burns.

    I'd say the most offensive thing is listening to a college kid use the same term like "performativeness" over and over, and OVER. I hate listening to dumb people attempt to sound intellectual.


    I'm not defending that, because if it's as it appears to be it's absurdly stupid BUT it seems like a snippet of a conversation and it seems like that girl is calling out that guy as being a 'spy' or something of that nature and challenging him to do something that would prove otherwise.
    Come on man. She's pissed at him for not punching the "nazi" and she starts pulling rank on hum saying that he has to put in the work to move up their ranks (ie punching nazis and being arrested).

    He argues that he HAS put in the work.

    To be fair to you, there is a longer video that shows that context more, but they still come off as being just as pathetic, crazy, racist and hypocritical.
    I'd like to see the longer video, especially if it shows anything that leads up to the point where that video starts.  I'm not convinced that the video is absolutely misleading - I have no trouble believing that stupid people are everywhere - but it seems to me like that particular guy is getting called out for a specific reason...speculation on my part, but perhaps because they either think that he was a spy or because he was an alt-right guy who pretended to flip sides when he was cornered (I've seen that happen).  Her remarks appear to be focused solely on him and she isn't taking any sort of issue with any of the other white people around her, so it seems pretty clear that something significant took place before that video starts.
  • @akritenbrink ,
    well, she seems to think,
    Poems need not rhyme,
    even though time after time,
    poems without rhymes do stink.
    CretanBullTravis
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    edited September 26

    tom_g said:

    Frakkin T said:

    Frakkin T said:

    Look, dude, you're free to go live in the woods like the Unabomber, free of oppressive government and dirty leftists. If you want to be a part of society, you have to contribute. Simple as that.. 

    Is this what you were talking about? Seems to me I was taking your point of view to its logical conclusion rather than comparing you to him. I apologize if it came off as name-calling.

    IMHO - Saying some one is free to, 'fill in the blank', is not calling them, 'fill in the blank'.

    For example, even if I were to say that emnofseattle is free to be a snowflake, that does not mean I am saying emnofseattle IS A SNOWFLAKE.
    Everyone knows @emnofseattle is a bot... 
    maybe he's a Russian bot... 
    that would explain a lot...

    You guys did I ever tell you I was a poet 



    That last line doesn't rhyme
    So please don't waste our time
    With fanciful claims
    Of your poetic aims


    Listen, philistine
    Poetry does not need to rhyme
    Also you're the Unabomber 
    CretanBullTraviscdrive
  • Not really politics but current events: did you guys see the feds arrested 10 people today (NCAA coaches, Adidas marketing reps, and others) on corruption charges for taking bribes to steer NBA-bound players to certain schools, agents, and sportswear brands? This whole thing is nuts lol

  • tom_g said:

    Frakkin T said:

    Frakkin T said:

    Look, dude, you're free to go live in the woods like the Unabomber, free of oppressive government and dirty leftists. If you want to be a part of society, you have to contribute. Simple as that.. 

    Is this what you were talking about? Seems to me I was taking your point of view to its logical conclusion rather than comparing you to him. I apologize if it came off as name-calling.

    IMHO - Saying some one is free to, 'fill in the blank', is not calling them, 'fill in the blank'.

    For example, even if I were to say that emnofseattle is free to be a snowflake, that does not mean I am saying emnofseattle IS A SNOWFLAKE.
    Everyone knows @emnofseattle is a bot... 
    maybe he's a Russian bot... 
    that would explain a lot...

    You guys did I ever tell you I was a poet 



    That last line doesn't rhyme
    So please don't waste our time
    With fanciful claims
    Of your poetic aims


    Listen, philistine
    Poetry does not need to rhyme
    Also you're the Unabomber 
    I'm glad that you took your turn
    but that was far from a sick burn
    If you want to be noticed by me
    you'll have to up your level of poetry

    Travis
  • TravisTravis CA
    edited September 26

    tom_g said:

    Frakkin T said:

    Frakkin T said:

    Look, dude, you're free to go live in the woods like the Unabomber, free of oppressive government and dirty leftists. If you want to be a part of society, you have to contribute. Simple as that.. 

    Is this what you were talking about? Seems to me I was taking your point of view to its logical conclusion rather than comparing you to him. I apologize if it came off as name-calling.

    IMHO - Saying some one is free to, 'fill in the blank', is not calling them, 'fill in the blank'.

    For example, even if I were to say that emnofseattle is free to be a snowflake, that does not mean I am saying emnofseattle IS A SNOWFLAKE.
    Everyone knows @emnofseattle is a bot... 
    maybe he's a Russian bot... 
    that would explain a lot...

    You guys did I ever tell you I was a poet 



    That last line doesn't rhyme
    So please don't waste our time
    With fanciful claims
    Of your poetic aims


    Listen, philistine
    Poetry does not need to rhyme
    Also you're the Unabomber 
    I'm glad that you took your turn
    but that was far from a sick burn
    If you want to be noticed by me
    you'll have to up your level of poetry

    Now, lets take a breath and relax. 
    We can all agree, you're both poetry hacks.
    Even Kriss Kross called to say you're wack
    And those dudes turn their pants to the back.

    Dave Chen rhymes with Ambien.
    Cheeseburger.
    Splash.
    CretanBullApril_May_Junecdrive
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    Are we in a rap battle? 
    TravisCretanBullApril_May_Junecdrive
  • TravisTravis CA
    edited September 26
    I don't know. It looked like fun and I wanted in, but I learned everything I know about poetry from the movie 8 Mile.
    CretanBullApril_May_Junecdrive
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    edited September 26
    Travis said:

    I don't know. It looked like fun and I wanted in, but I learned everything I know about poetry from the movie 8 Mile.

    Well, thus far I wouldn't say our battle has exceeded anything in 8 Mile, so I guess you're golden haha
    TravisApril_May_June
  • Travis said:

    tom_g said:

    Frakkin T said:

    Frakkin T said:

    Look, dude, you're free to go live in the woods like the Unabomber, free of oppressive government and dirty leftists. If you want to be a part of society, you have to contribute. Simple as that.. 

    Is this what you were talking about? Seems to me I was taking your point of view to its logical conclusion rather than comparing you to him. I apologize if it came off as name-calling.

    IMHO - Saying some one is free to, 'fill in the blank', is not calling them, 'fill in the blank'.

    For example, even if I were to say that emnofseattle is free to be a snowflake, that does not mean I am saying emnofseattle IS A SNOWFLAKE.
    Everyone knows @emnofseattle is a bot... 
    maybe he's a Russian bot... 
    that would explain a lot...

    You guys did I ever tell you I was a poet 



    That last line doesn't rhyme
    So please don't waste our time
    With fanciful claims
    Of your poetic aims


    Listen, philistine
    Poetry does not need to rhyme
    Also you're the Unabomber 
    I'm glad that you took your turn
    but that was far from a sick burn
    If you want to be noticed by me
    you'll have to up your level of poetry

    Now, lets take a breath and relax. 
    We can all agree, you're both poetry hacks.
    Even Kriss Kross called to say you're wack
    And those dudes turn their pants to the back.

    Dave Chen rhymes with Ambien.
    Cheeseburger.
    Splash.
    Travis said:

    I don't know. It looked like fun and I wanted in, but I learned everything I know about poetry from the movie 8 Mile.

    You Eminem wanna be
    Took your shot and now you'll see
    You're messing with a rhyme master
    Run away, not slow but faster!


    TravisApril_May_June
  • Are we in a rap battle? 

    It's not a battle without an opponent
    An adversary is the missing component
    No one here can stand up to me
    I'm like HBO, you're all Disney

    TravisApril_May_Junebizmarkiefader
  • TravisTravis CA
    edited September 26
    Hot damn! Well played! I have tasted my own medicine and it is bitter.

    You wanna talk like you're HBO
    (looks on internet to find bad HBO shows, eh?... shit, what rhymes with HBO... Toe? no that's nothing. Flow, No, Go, Beau, Doh!
    Let's reset and try this again...

    shit. I got nothin.
    CretanBullApril_May_June
  • Can I get in on this?

    Mom's spaghetti ...

    Oh crap, this is a lot harder than I thought! Lol
    CretanBullgguenot
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    I created two monsters.
    CretanBullApril_May_June
  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto
    edited September 27

    I created two monsters.

    You call us your monsters
    Like we're hipster vermont-sters
    but we're not rhyming about Montpelier
    I gotta stop this, it's getting sillier
    April_May_Junehisdudeness915akritenbrink
  • I think everyone should stick to their day jobs...
    CretanBullApril_May_Juneakritenbrink
  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto
    edited September 27
    KingKobra said:

    I think everyone should stick to their day jobs...

    I hear disses from the peanut gallery
    from one who won't spend a calorie
    stepping up to the plate
    to meet his rhyme fate

    April_May_Juneakritenbrink
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    edited September 27
    KingKobra said:

    I think everyone should stick to their day jobs...

    This may be the time to tell you guys I studied literature and I'm a published poet...

    Mic drop
    CretanBullTravis
  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto
    edited September 27

    KingKobra said:

    I think everyone should stick to their day jobs...

    This may be the time to tell you guys I studied literature and I'm a published poet...

    Mic drop



    Have you ever rhymed "Montpelier" and "sillier"?  I didn't think so.

    Mic picked up, and then dropped again.  This time with the smug emphasis of a middle aged, middle class white man.

    hisdudeness915Travis
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)

    KingKobra said:

    I think everyone should stick to their day jobs...

    This may be the time to tell you guys I studied literature and I'm a published poet...

    Mic drop



    Have you ever rhymed "Montpelier" and "sillier"?  I didn't think so.

    Mic picked up, and then dropped again.  This time with the smug emphasis of a middle aged, middle class white man.

    But we all know you're really just a Canadian!
  • KingKobra said:

    I think everyone should stick to their day jobs...

    This may be the time to tell you guys I studied literature and I'm a published poet...

    Mic drop



    Have you ever rhymed "Montpelier" and "sillier"?  I didn't think so.

    Mic picked up, and then dropped again.  This time with the smug emphasis of a middle aged, middle class white man.

    But we all know you're really just a Canadian!
    When you say that I'm "just" a Canadian
    it makes me wonder if you're a weird Cascadian
    wanting a new country on the West Coast
    I think you should be an American first and foremost

    akritenbrink
  • FlukesFlukes Calgary, Canada
    Heard an interesting take from Jon Lovett on Pod Save America this week. I won't try to quote it directly, but I will try to boil it down.

    Protesting is intended to increase awareness and promote discussion of an issue by inserting it into every day life. A big part of that is making people feel uncomfortable and inconvenienced - it's the mechanism by which protesting achieves its goals.

    There are plenty of big important things that would undoubtedly merit interrupting a professional sports broadcast. An assassination of an important figure, an military or terrorist attack against the country, or commemorating an important event (like 9/11 or Independence Day in the US) can seep into that world without resistance because they're important. 

    Some things are less important and are more irritating if they infringe on this space. As an example, I hate it when announcers read ad copy for sitcoms during games.

    There are other items that are small in scope or insignificant enough that it isn't appropriate for them to intrude on this space. If an athlete has a disagreement with a sponsor, I would be really disappointed if they used the game as a platform to bring it to light. If the owner of the team lives in a neighborhood where everyone's tax assessment was conducted unfairly, it would be petty to use a national stage to get attention for that cause. 

    If you oppose athletes (and now owners and other staff) using this platform to bring attention to police brutality and racial discrimination - it's going to make those affected by the issue feel like you don't think it's important enough for this stage. If you really feel that way I may think you're wrong but you're entitled to your opinion. If you do think it's an important issue, however, you should think about the message sent when you say "stick to sports". "Stick to sports" means "I don't think this is important enough that I should have to think about it when I just want to watch some football. This is your problem, not mine." 

    In the US an unarmed black man is 5 times more likely to be shot by police than an unarmed white man and it doesn't matter if you play for the 49ers or not.
    TravisjazzminawaDeegguenotakritenbrinkbizmarkiefaderDaveyMac
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    edited September 27

    anubus21 said:

    It's not about the flag or the military, it's fear of black people standing up for themselves.

    I don't have a fear of black people standing up for themselves. To me it is about the flag and the military
    How does taking a knee during the anthem disrespect the flag or military?  Both presumably are representations of American liberty...how can it possibly be disrespectful to exercise freedom of speech - the epitome of American liberty? 

    If it's about the flag, then why is this specific (supposed) expression of disrespecting it the one that's causing people to freak out when the US Flag Code is openly violated - literally - millions of times per day?

    Because in this society, and most societies that Im aware of there are cultural rules and customs that demonstrate respect for the nation, its emblems, etc. just as there are customs that show respect on an interpersonal level. If you and I met in person and you extended your hand to indicate you wanted to shake my hand and I refused to do so, that's a snub, the act of not doing so communicates disrespect by nature.

    Likewise, the practice of not standing for the flag is usually a communication of disrespect, at the very least it may be presumed to be so. Some groups like Jehovas witnesses don't do so out of religious reasons, but they wouldn't stand for any flag, be it America, or Argentina, or U.K. Or Zimbabwe or anyone, but to not stand in this society, especially over a poorly defined political cause is communicating disrespect. Same as snubbing someone who wants to shake your hand.

    And you take that action knowing how it perceived, you can't cry foul that people take it how you intended it to look.
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    Flukes said:

    Heard an interesting take from Jon Lovett on Pod Save America this week. I won't try to quote it directly, but I will try to boil it down.


    Protesting is intended to increase awareness and promote discussion of an issue by inserting it into every day life. A big part of that is making people feel uncomfortable and inconvenienced - it's the mechanism by which protesting achieves its goals.

    There are plenty of big important things that would undoubtedly merit interrupting a professional sports broadcast. An assassination of an important figure, an military or terrorist attack against the country, or commemorating an important event (like 9/11 or Independence Day in the US) can seep into that world without resistance because they're important. 

    Some things are less important and are more irritating if they infringe on this space. As an example, I hate it when announcers read ad copy for sitcoms during games.

    There are other items that are small in scope or insignificant enough that it isn't appropriate for them to intrude on this space. If an athlete has a disagreement with a sponsor, I would be really disappointed if they used the game as a platform to bring it to light. If the owner of the team lives in a neighborhood where everyone's tax assessment was conducted unfairly, it would be petty to use a national stage to get attention for that cause. 

    If you oppose athletes (and now owners and other staff) using this platform to bring attention to police brutality and racial discrimination - it's going to make those affected by the issue feel like you don't think it's important enough for this stage. If you really feel that way I may think you're wrong but you're entitled to your opinion. If you do think it's an important issue, however, you should think about the message sent when you say "stick to sports". "Stick to sports" means "I don't think this is important enough that I should have to think about it when I just want to watch some football. This is your problem, not mine." 

    In the US an unarmed black man is 5 times more likely to be shot by police than an unarmed white man and it doesn't matter if you play for the 49ers or not.
    And I'm not sure what exactly they want, so Michael Bennet of the Seattle Seahawks went to Olympia and testified in favor of a WA state bill to remove legal protections from cops who use deadly force in the line of duty, no one complained when he did that, anyone can go to Their state capitol and give comment on a bill, I've done that many times.

    Bennet then however went on to Slander the Las Vegas police and demonstrably so, then refused to stand for the flag, so you can take whatever protest actions you want, but it might not advance your cause and the perception of your actions can definitely be unfriendly to you
  • FlukesFlukes Calgary, Canada

    And I'm not sure what exactly they want, so Michael Bennet of the Seattle Seahawks went to Olympia and testified in favor of a WA state bill to remove legal protections from cops who use deadly force in the line of duty, no one complained when he did that, anyone can go to Their state capitol and give comment on a bill, I've done that many times.

    Bennet then however went on to Slander the Las Vegas police and demonstrably so, then refused to stand for the flag, so you can take whatever protest actions you want, but it might not advance your cause and the perception of your actions can definitely be unfriendly to you

    In the broadest view, I imagine what  they want is fewer unarmed people shot. The point of protest is to get other citizens to think about the issue and hopefully influence policy decisions. 

    I'm not familiar with the specifics surrounding Michael Bennet so I can only take your account at face value. I don't know enough about any other actions he's taken is support of this issue to comment. I can't pretend to understand the perceived offense regarding the American flag. Our perception of national symbols here is obviously quite different.

    In general terms, I'm not especially impressed with Black Lives Matter (the seemingly dominant voice on the issue) and I agree they don't do a great job communicating what actions they want to see taken. I expect to see reference to studies of the issue, model legislation and other actionable information from a group that's really dedicated to change. It looks like what they really need is to attract supporters who understand the system and know how to affect change in a concrete way without resorting to slander and violence. Protesting non-violently might be a pretty good way to do that. 

    I may be way off base here, but kneeling seems like one of least disrespectful things they could do while still being obvious. They're not standing with their back to the flag, giving the flag the finger, or plugging their ears and yelling over the anthem.
  • LordByLordBy Utah
    edited September 27
    I think this movement would be best served by pushing a slate of police policy changes and deescalation training, but that's me and the movement certainly needs to do a better job of communicating realistic solutions for the next step after raising awareness with protest.

    On another note, tax framework leaked: >$5trillion in cuts over the next 10yrs, and they'll figure out how to pay sometime during the negotiations. Cuts include sweeteners for the wealthy such as elimination of the estate tax and the AMT without addressing carried interest taxation. Also highest tax rate dropping to 35% and even lower for pass-through taxation business entities (so everyone will just set up an LLC or S Corp to be paid rather than to be paid directly to save 10%+), though they concede they're willing to consider an undefined tax on the undefined wealthy to amerilorate the jaw-dropping benefits to the top 1%.

    So much for the party of fiscal responsibility.
    jazzminawaGredalBee
  • Republican politics become much easier to understand when you consider that what they really want is less taxes on the super wealthy above all else. Why are their healthcare bills so shoddy? Because they're a vehicle for tax cuts not actual healthcare bills.
    jazzminawaCretanBull
  • anubus21 said:

    It's not about the flag or the military, it's fear of black people standing up for themselves.

    I don't have a fear of black people standing up for themselves. To me it is about the flag and the military
    How does taking a knee during the anthem disrespect the flag or military?  Both presumably are representations of American liberty...how can it possibly be disrespectful to exercise freedom of speech - the epitome of American liberty? 

    If it's about the flag, then why is this specific (supposed) expression of disrespecting it the one that's causing people to freak out when the US Flag Code is openly violated - literally - millions of times per day?

    Because in this society, and most societies that Im aware of there are cultural rules and customs that demonstrate respect for the nation, its emblems, etc. just as there are customs that show respect on an interpersonal level. If you and I met in person and you extended your hand to indicate you wanted to shake my hand and I refused to do so, that's a snub, the act of not doing so communicates disrespect by nature.

    Likewise, the practice of not standing for the flag is usually a communication of disrespect, at the very least it may be presumed to be so. Some groups like Jehovas witnesses don't do so out of religious reasons, but they wouldn't stand for any flag, be it America, or Argentina, or U.K. Or Zimbabwe or anyone, but to not stand in this society, especially over a poorly defined political cause is communicating disrespect. Same as snubbing someone who wants to shake your hand.

    And you take that action knowing how it perceived, you can't cry foul that people take it how you intended it to look.
    Right, but a handshake isn't a the embodiment of freedom of speech the way the flag often is meant to be, and a primary freedom that the military fights for.

    Of course these guys are doing it because they know it will anger people, draw attention to themselves and give them a spotlight to raise awareness for their issue.

    I've been critical of those on the left - I called them stupid - who protest against right-wing speakers on college campuses because they're doing what the other side wants.  It's not by random choice that people like Milo go to a place like Berkley - it's where he knows his presence will cause the biggest reaction.  "We're" dumb for falling for it time and time again.

    I make that same observation now - the right is being stupid.  You hate what these people are doing SO much that you're giving them the spotlight that they want.  You're not stopping it, you're guaranteeing that it keeps happening.

    The broader problem is the hypocrisy on the right - when Trump directly violated the Flag Code no one reacted and when Trump insulted the Khans and McCain's military service, very few reacted.  You can drive down just about any street in America or walk into any store or restaurant and see dozens of Flag Code violations - no one cares.  It's this particular offense that is driving people crazy...so I say, it's not the offense - it's the colour of the people doing it.
    Aww_PHuuCk
  • LordBy said:

    I think this movement would be best served by pushing a slate of police policy changes and deescalation training, but that's me and the movement certainly needs to do a better job of communicating realistic solutions for the next step after raising awareness with protest.

    On another note, tax framework leaked: >$5trillion in cuts over the next 10yrs, and they'll figure out how to pay sometime during the negotiations. Cuts include sweeteners for the wealthy such as elimination of the estate tax and the AMT without addressing carried interest taxation. Also highest tax rate dropping to 35% and even lower for pass-through taxation business entities (so everyone will just set up an LLC or S Corp to be paid rather than to be paid directly to save 10%+), though they concede they're willing to consider an undefined tax on the undefined wealthy to amerilorate the jaw-dropping benefits to the top 1%.

    So much for the party of fiscal responsibility.

    These tax cuts are almost certainly going to go through because there are enough Democrats who are in the pocket of the same wealthy donors as the majority of the Republicans.
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    edited September 27
    LordBy said:

    I think this movement would be best served by pushing a slate of police policy changes and deescalation training, but that's me and the movement certainly needs to do a better job of communicating realistic solutions for the next step after raising awareness with protest.

    I disagree. One of the biggest complaints I've seen from people of colour online is that they are constantly expected to educate white people about why something is bad and/or racist, and that they are tired of the expectation that everything they say and do should be a teachable moment.

    It's not up to BLM to educate or to try to shape or influence policy. BLM's raison d'être appears to be to draw attention to what's been happening to their people - which they have done quite effectively. They are a protest group. It should then be up to the police and the taxpaying public who pay for the police and vote in the lawmakers to say, well this shit is out of control. What can WE do about it?
    CretanBullAww_PHuuCkjazzminawaJaimieTDaveyMac
This discussion has been closed.