U.S. Politics the Third

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  • People in power (usually men) who take sexual advantage of people not in power (usually women) is not a political issue, it’s a societal/human issue that exists on all sides.

    I’d like to think that things are getting better, which is why some of these long time abusers are finally being outed, but then you have someone caught bragging about it winning the electoral collage after being outed so we still clearly have a long way to go.

    I’m not slamming Trump as a Republican here (he was a Democrat for longer than he has been a Republican after all) and I’m not slamming the GOP electorate as he would not have won without thousands of voters crossing over this past election; I’m saying that we all have a long way to go even if we’re moving in the right direction most of the time.
  • The right is running away with stories connecting Weinstein with Clinton and Obama because he donated to their campaigns and raised money for them.

    I don’t think accepting money conflates his behavior with their politics, especially with their positions and policies regarding women, and I think it’s a silly game given the amount of money Trump is raising for the GOP with his history of claiming sexual assault.

    For every Weiner there is a Hastert, for every Clinton there is a DesJarlais, etc. This is not a partisan issue and asking Hillary, who lost, to return campaign donations due to unacceptable behavior by a donor just raises the issue for Hillary to have a big press conference donating that cash to charity while asking the GOP to do the same for every dollar raised by Trump. Vetting every campaign donation is not realistic and nobody would be clean under that kind of standard.
  • The Republicans are running wild with this story because they think it's some kind of 'gotcha' moment for the, but all it's doing is showing how little they actually care about sexual assault because they're doing everything possible to make it political without commenting at all on the issue, the victims etc
    tom_g
  • ThomasThomas North Carolina
    It happens everywhere, not just in politics.  Jameis Winston legit raped two women and got away with it because the American people are gullible and stupid.  They kept it hidden until he got famous enough that they could attack the victim at will since she had no real proof.  His fans defended him non-stop while people who hated his team(s) attacked him.  

    The same happens with Democrats and Republicans.  They will defend Hillary while attacking Trump and vice versa.  They justify all these excuses by saying that someone else in the opposing group did the same thing before, which now makes it ok.  

    The Phenno Theory is just too perfect.
  • davemcbdavemcb Melbourne
    @KingKobra by saying to avoid sponsors of the NFL product she was attacking the partners of her own company. ESPN paid $1B for the rights to MNF so they are defintely partners

    As for teams having a code of conduct thats fine but the different between the NFL, MLB, NBA etc is there conditions of work are collectively bargained between the employees and employers. The next round of bargaining could include no activism clauses or all players must stand for the anthem but the players will get something out of it as well
  • davemcb said:

    @KingKobra by saying to avoid sponsors of the NFL product she was attacking the partners of her own company. ESPN paid $1B for the rights to MNF so they are defintely partners

    As for teams having a code of conduct thats fine but the different between the NFL, MLB, NBA etc is there conditions of work are collectively bargained between the employees and employers. The next round of bargaining could include no activism clauses or all players must stand for the anthem but the players will get something out of it as well

    Once again it was specific to Jerry Jones, not the NFL as a whole. She gave people a peaceful effective way to protest. This is the last I'll post on this, as we are only going in circles. While I understand where some of you are coming from, I don't agree (and do side with her right to say what she did).
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    tom_g said:

    Generally - yes - democrats can claim the high ground.


    Guns - yes
    LGBTQ issues - yes
    Women's Health - yes
    Consumer Protection - yes
    Environment - yes

    Could go on - need to join a meeting.
    Sure, if you're a democrat you can claim all those things, if you're not one, like the majority of the US population none of that applies
    anubus21
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Hey, look at this:. http://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/music/2017/10/10/eminem-donald-trump-freestyle-rap-bet-hip-hop-awards/752628001/

    *fire emoji* Pretty bold, since I imagine a fair number of Em fans are Trump fans. I think it's pretty devastating, too. Shit like this changes minds. It did for me, certainly.
    CretanBullHatorianDaveyMac
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA

    Hey, look at this:. http://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/music/2017/10/10/eminem-donald-trump-freestyle-rap-bet-hip-hop-awards/752628001/

    *fire emoji* Pretty bold, since I imagine a fair number of Em fans are Trump fans. I think it's pretty devastating, too. Shit like this changes minds. It did for me, certainly.

    Oh man, I'm feeling hope. And now I'm feeling like shit, because that's usually the feeling that accompanies that re: Trump. My soul is confused. 
    CretanBull
  • My facebook feed is filled with this video - it's instant-viral....it will definitely have an impact
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    The POW callback is powerful.
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  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    Flukes said:

    There it is - the problem with tribalism. If I find myself thinking "YES! - A WIN FOR THE HOME TEAM!" when someone is the victim of sexual abuse that's a good indication that I need to go take a long look in the mirror. 

    It has nothing to do with disrespecting victims, it has everything to do with people like this criminal acting holier then thou over years of time and virtue signaling so many causes then it turns out he's a criminal. He's made a name for himself tearing other people, like the NRA, conservatives, Trump, etc
    And not only that but Hollywood knew this for years, it was a joke and an open secret amongst so many in Hollywood who kept it quiet while virtue signaling and apparently didn't themselves care about the victims of this guy. So yes it is perfectly proper to criticize Hollywood and politicians who took Weinsteins money over how Weinstein apparently treated women
    anubus21
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  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Em is the best ever. yea i said it. 
    TxSandMan
  • Doctor_NickDoctor_Nick Terminus
    edited October 2017
    Certainly seems like the liberal elite in Hollywood were protecting one of their own.  Everybody knew.  The late night hosts have been quiet about it still, and SNL apparently killed skits about it this week.
    ---------------
    There were TV jokes about it since the 2000s.

    Entourage

    The HBO comedy and Hollywood parody had a brief but memorable arc in the mid-2000s with a character named “Harvey Weingard,” an over-the-top terrifying producer who was a very loosely veiled version of Weinstein. (The Hollywood Reporter wrote that Weinstein was initially not a fan and that he told star Kevin Connolly that the producers were “dead” if they mentioned him again.)

    On the show, Harvey was portrayed as an extremely influential, verbally abusive power player who threatened to end people’s careers if he didn’t get his way. He went ballistic on Vince (Adrian Grenier) and the guys when they changed their minds about a movie deal.

    30 Rock
    "“Oh, please, I’m not afraid of anyone in show business,” Jenna says. “I turned down intercourse with Harvey Weinstein on no less than three occasions. Out of five.”"

    “I know how former lovers can have a hold over you long after they’re gone,” she says. “In some ways, I’m still pinned under a passed-out Harvey Weinstein, and it’s Thanksgiving.”

    2013, “Family Guy” creator Seth MacFarlane cracked a joke about this while announcing the Oscar nominees for best supporting actress: “Congratulations, you five ladies no longer have to pretend to be attracted to Harvey Weinstein.” MacFarlane and his announcing partner, Emma Stone, paused as the audience cracked up at that one.

     On The Cut, Rebecca Traister wrote that in 2000, while covering a pre-election party Weinstein was throwing, Weinstein called her a “c–t” in response to a question he didn’t like, then threw another reporter down a flight of stairs and dragged him outside in a headlock. Such was Weinstein’s power, Traister wrote, that no other reporters covered the incident and no photos ever appeared.

    Veteran Hollywood reporter Kim Masters wrote that she had a confrontation with Weinstein over this very issue 20 years ago. Sharon Waxman wrote that she tried to break the story in 2004, but after pressure from Weinstein and calls from defenders Russell Crowe and Matt Damon, the Times softened and buried it.



    Brawn
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    Hollywood is full of self-interested scumbags who willingly turn a blind eye to a sexual predator's decades of abuse. Quelle surprise...
    JaimieT
  • davemcbdavemcb Melbourne
    KingKobra said:

    davemcb said:

    @KingKobra by saying to avoid sponsors of the NFL product she was attacking the partners of her own company. ESPN paid $1B for the rights to MNF so they are defintely partners

    As for teams having a code of conduct thats fine but the different between the NFL, MLB, NBA etc is there conditions of work are collectively bargained between the employees and employers. The next round of bargaining could include no activism clauses or all players must stand for the anthem but the players will get something out of it as well

    Once again it was specific to Jerry Jones, not the NFL as a whole. She gave people a peaceful effective way to protest. This is the last I'll post on this, as we are only going in circles. While I understand where some of you are coming from, I don't agree (and do side with her right to say what she did).
    I understand your point around JJ and his advertisers but if you look at the list there will be a cross over of NFL sponsors or companies who buy ad time during ESPN coverage. She got reprimanded for the same reason Schilling got fired she was told to stop and she didnt.

    I actually really like Jemele Hill and am a big fan, i think she should have the right to say what she wants and i agree largely with her points. But i can also see where ESPN is coming from in reprimanding her, if she wasnt just off the back of the Trump tweet nothing would have happened
  • Doctor_NickDoctor_Nick Terminus
    edited October 2017
    It's pretty funny that Seth McFarlane is now going to get props for being way ahead of the curve. He had the whole sexist breast joke controversy at the same Oscars I think.
    Dee said:

    Hollywood is full of self-interested scumbags who willingly turn a blind eye to a sexual predator's decades of abuse. Quelle surprise...



  • DeeDee Adelaide
    edited October 2017
    @Doctor_Nick Seth MacFarlane isn't getting any props from me.
  • I am/was a big fan of Matt Damon. But if it’s true he was a part of trying to cover up HW actions by making phone calls to victims then that’s just sad.

    HW just seems to tip of the iceberg though. Everyone RIPed Hugh Hefner and he was a douchebag who allowed a 10 year old girl to be photographed naked, drugged women constantly.

    Then there’s a lot of stories from child actors who say they were abused as well.

    Maybe there is some truth to the fact that people sell their soul to be famous and evil things happen.
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    edited October 2017

    Hey, look at this:. http://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/music/2017/10/10/eminem-donald-trump-freestyle-rap-bet-hip-hop-awards/752628001/

    *fire emoji* Pretty bold, since I imagine a fair number of Em fans are Trump fans. I think it's pretty devastating, too. Shit like this changes minds. It did for me, certainly.

    Why would Eminem fans be Trump fans?
    Because he came from a white trash trailer park, working class poor, and maintains that identity in his work. There are a lot of Em fans in the Midwest and south who say, "I hate rap, but I love Eminem." They can't relate to "thugs and gangstas" but they can relate to crazy mom's and lack of opportunity and drug addiction cycles and the kind of constant gnawing fear, inadequacy, raw anger, and desperation that pours out of his music. They relate to him. He'll probably lose a lot of those fans, but there's a lot of them feeling that weird mental dissonance feeling this morning I wager.
    DeeDaveyMacFlukesjtmy92
  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto
    edited October 2017
    The Eminem video has 4.3 million views in less than 12 hours from the 'official' posting and there are multiple postings of it on youtube...
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA

    Hey, look at this:. http://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/music/2017/10/10/eminem-donald-trump-freestyle-rap-bet-hip-hop-awards/752628001/

    *fire emoji* Pretty bold, since I imagine a fair number of Em fans are Trump fans. I think it's pretty devastating, too. Shit like this changes minds. It did for me, certainly.

    Why would Eminem fans be Trump fans?
    Because he came from a white trash trailer park, working class poor, and maintains that identity in his work. There are a lot of Em fans in the Midwest and south who say, "I hate rap, but I love Eminem." They can't relate to "thugs and gangstas" but they can relate to crazy mom's and lack of opportunity and drug addiction cycles and the kind of constant gnawing fear, inadequacy, raw anger, and desperation that pours out of his music. They relate to him. He'll probably lose a lot of those fans, but there's a lot of them feeling that weird mental dissonance feeling this morning I wager.
    People can appreciate his music without taking his politics.

    Your political and religious beliefs are far more part of who you are then who you think is a good entertainer. So I don't think anyone who seriously supports Trump will question that due to content put out by Eminem.

    It can actually backfire on him if Eminem fans are also trump fans, lookup when the Dixie chicks were ashamed of George Bush





    Brawn
  • FlukesFlukes Calgary, Canada
    Flukes said:

    There it is - the problem with tribalism. If I find myself thinking "YES! - A WIN FOR THE HOME TEAM!" when someone is the victim of sexual abuse that's a good indication that I need to go take a long look in the mirror. 

    It has nothing to do with disrespecting victims, it has everything to do with people like this criminal acting holier then thou over years of time and virtue signaling so many causes then it turns out he's a criminal. He's made a name for himself tearing other people, like the NRA, conservatives, Trump, etc
    And not only that but Hollywood knew this for years, it was a joke and an open secret amongst so many in Hollywood who kept it quiet while virtue signaling and apparently didn't themselves care about the victims of this guy. So yes it is perfectly proper to criticize Hollywood and politicians who took Weinsteins money over how Weinstein apparently treated women
    You're really good at intentionally missing the point. I intentionally used myself as the subject of this thought and said nothing about the criticism being improper. 

    All of that criticism is fine if you're just as willing to criticize the members of your own tribe for the same behaviour. Let me put it more clearly: It's shameful to get excited and happy because sexual violence and harassment is perpetrated by your ideological opponents. It's doubly so to ignore sexual violence and harassment perpetrated by your ideological allies.

    I can't wait to see what point you decide you want to make with this time. Please just try not to put words in my mouth.
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    edited October 2017



    It has nothing to do with disrespecting victims, it has everything to do with people like this criminal acting holier then thou over years of time and virtue signaling so many causes then it turns out he's a criminal. He's made a name for himself tearing other people, like the NRA, conservatives, Trump, etc
    And not only that but Hollywood knew this for years, it was a joke and an open secret amongst so many in Hollywood who kept it quiet while virtue signaling and apparently didn't themselves care about the victims of this guy. So yes it is perfectly proper to criticize Hollywood and politicians who took Weinsteins money over how Weinstein apparently treated women

    He made a name for himself making movies. It doesn't have anything to do with his politics. There are powerful people of all political persuasions in Hollywood.
    I disagree, now I will preface by saying I don't believe rank and file liberals and Democratic Party members feel this way, but the elite of the media who are left wing and the power structure of the party definitely conspire to hide dirt on their friends. While exposing on the slightest of whims conservatives, and usually the power structure in the GOP is better at holding their members accountable. It's not s matter of leftist do these things more often, it's the cover they get when they do

    Some examples,

    Neil Goldschmit, former Oregon Governor, former Portland Mayor. During his tenure as Portland Mayor in the 1970s, he repeatedly raped a thirteen year old girl over the course of 3 years (so 13-16) he later became Governor in the 90s, then a lobbyist for liberal interests until 2004, when after years of The Oregonian (portlands main newspaper) hearing rumors and not doing anything an alternative publication (I think Williamette Week) published an expose on Goldschmidt. The Oregonian then ran stories calling the episode (remember grown adult man age 32 who's mayor of the city and a thirteen year old girl) "an affair" there was also Allegations then Governor Ted Kulongoski knew. In the end Goldsxhmidt is now retired in France and his victim is six kinds of Fd up.

    Obviously Mayor Murray of Seattle, King5 and the Seattle times knew there were rumors involving misconduct by Murray in Portland that they never investigated in 2012, before he became mayor.

    Clinton of course the Lewinsky story was broken by Matt Drudge after Newsweek. The media never took allegatIons by Broadderick and Wiley that seriously.

    And here with Weinstein we learn that this story has probable details in 2004 and wasn't run, can you name me a single sex scandal involving a conservative that the media basically sat on for 13 years that happened in the last three decades? None pop yo mind for me, so to say his politics don't matter is demonstrably untrue.

    They certainly didn't sit on Larry Craig being arrested for trying to solicit a consensual affair with an adult, they didn't sit on Ailes, didn't sit on O Reilly, they sat on the Trump access Hollywood tape only until the first round of absentee ballots were mailed.

  • LordByLordBy Utah
    edited October 2017
    Ailes and O’Reilly are bad examples. Their behavior was covered up and enabled by Fox News for many years.

    There are plenty of examples of nefarious GOP sexual behavior being kept on the DL until it leaked and had to be confronted. I’ll enumerate some if you’d like, but you’re missing the point. This isn’t a game where one side gets more points and can win, it’s a societal problem related to abuse of power dynamics by men of all persuasions, and of organizations (political or corporate) that sweep it under the rug because they’d rather pay someone off on condition of a gag order than endure bad press and public damage to their reputations.
    Flukes
  • @akritenbrink, you're right, all this talk in forums does nothing, but it's all we have. This country and this world is doomed and no one can do anything about it because the people in power have an agenda and they will carry it out come hell or high water.
This discussion has been closed.