808 - How It’s Gotta Be (Midseason Finale)

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  • After a season of insulting our intelligence, and the last three shows not even caring that they are insulting our intelligence, I will not put it past the writers for the next half of the season to have a "cure" in store for Carl.

    This show was going to be the nail in the coffin of my viewership, but seeing Carl bit (despite popular opinion, I cannot stand his insufferable character) will have me on to see the writers insult me a little bit more in February.
  • Reading this thread, the telegraphing was confirmed. Big death coming? Carl gets big scene waxing poetic about the future? Gee I wonder what will happen.
  • Gimple looks extremely uncomfortable trying to talk about this episode.  He was always acting like the coolest dude in the room in the past on Talking Dead.

    He looks like he wants to vomit trying to explain this episode.
    iMatty94picorock80
  • DrKen said:
    Gimple looks extremely uncomfortable trying to talk about this episode.  He was always acting like the coolest dude in the room in the past on Talking Dead.

    He looks like he wants to vomit trying to explain this episode.
    I'd look like I want to vomit if I had to explain why I lost record numbers of viewers...
    picorock80
  • cdrive said:
    Talking Dead Nicole Brown is fuckin street team. She just put out of her mouth “this season’s story arc has been so satisfying” 

    Your sitting next to Gimple, but really?
    Yeah I heard that and huge eye roll!!
  • Also on the talking dead Khary Payton sounded mad that Carl is dying. I wonder what the actors on the show thought when they heard Carl will die.
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    Probably jealousy.
    MichelleGredalBeeTaraC73Phoebes89tom_glengmoSonja121187Ganrustywright4EricFromOhio
  • What does this mean for the flash forward dream?
  • mwspiakmwspiak Upstate NY
    I literally feel like Gimple said "fuck man, how can we get those bald move guys to stop covering the show?" And then did that every episode so far this season.
    kdefieldsGredalBeeGanalexander.klassen
  • edited December 2017
    Was this a big F you to Kirkman ???

    Tv and comic book going their seperate ways ???

    Oh, and Daryl messed up again. If they'd just stuck to the original plan...
  • If this had been Chandler Riggs’ decision to leave, I would have understood killing Carl off. But to learn that this was Gimple’s decision (and just after Chandler had bought a house in Georgia so that he could be closer to the set) just pisses me off.

    I’d be fine if 8x08 of Watching Dead didn’t have an episode recap, and was just 90 minutes of Jim and A.Ron verbally tearing Gimple a new asshole. 

    Unless they’re going to time jump 10 years so that Judith is around Carl’s (comic) age, and she takes his story from the comic, I don’t see how AMC can continue to say that this show is based on Kirkman’s work. It should be relabelled to “inspired by.”
    iMatty94AntManBeeGanjayjaejaiEricFromOhio
  • I can honestly see Jim and aron stopping now, I don't want them to. But I also wouldn't blame them. I don't see how killng Carl does anything good for ratings, story or really just, anything! The future character and start of the show is gone. How would you all feel if there was a cure for Carl? Or he is immune? 
    hypergenesbDokDoomjayjaejai
  • Besides the big points i had a couple of other thoughts

    Why would Castle Anthrax be so interested in whiskey? Even in a ZA it would tough to stomach
    Who leaves a toddler unsupervised by a pond/lake although that would be close to fulfilling Jim's Zom-baby requirements
    What was making everything randomly explode was it set to explode or whatwas being fired in?
    Why didnt neck tattoo try to take people out when fake Daryl said all clear

    God damn this show is frustrating when nearly everything can be picked at rather than just a few points.
  • cbspockcbspock San Antonio, Texas
    So was the original plan to use the walkers to just trap people in the Sanctuary, and then put together a final attack after they are starved out and or low on ammo? Sounds like an okay plan, but it sounds like they didn't have the second part of the plan ready to go. Sounds like planning D-Day and taking the beach and then having no follow on forces ready..lol These people deserve everything bad that happens to them, they jumped the gun which made the situation worse since the walkers were put in a kill box for the defenders. 
  • the score was pretty good, in particular towards the end.

    Other than that, I'm just sick of this back and forth, push and pull between AHK / Saviors having the upper hand and standing around threatening each other in fairly irrational ways.

    My big question, and I've skipped around the episode trying to figure this out, but how the hell did Maggie and crew get out of their jam? Is Gimple just leaving that for a flashback next half, or did I miss something?
  • voodooratvoodoorat Atlanta
    edited December 2017
    apparently the saviors were pinned in at the sanctuary and besieged by the zombies and by snipers and that's why they were defenseless for some amount of time prior to eugene's brilliant plan (which was...  to make bullets?  did he do that instantaneously or something?  they sure have always seemed to have always had plenty of guns and bullets, explosives, etc (so much and many that they usually use full auto no less) except for negan who inexplicably just carries a bat and never gets shot).  but they had plenty of bullets to kill the zombies (apparently, or at least enough of them to get out and formulate a plan to lead the rest away), and the snipers were apparently easy to kill for some reason once the zombies were gone (mind bullets? also, the snipers didn't shoot eugene when he was trying to build a zombie remote control plane--could they not see that spot?  why not kill the zombies from there or just open the door and start killing them if a gaping hole in the wall does the trick it seems like letting them in slowly would work even better).  yah, daryl fucked up "the plan", but it seems like the plan was going to fail anyway if zombies could just be killed at will and snipers were no threat for some reason.  daryl mostly fucked up by for no reason just leaving instead of, i don't know, watching to see what happened after they broke the wall?  jesus, man. if you see they are defending against the zombies, start fires or knock more holes in the wall or something while they're occupied to give the zombies an advantage, don't just go home and hope for the best.  in that way this *is* all his fault.  what the fuck was the point of the garbage people existing as an ally for all of 30 seconds?  why did aaron and enid think it was a good idea to go to oceanside when the last time rick's group interacted with them they stole all their guns?

    tldr: the overall plot continues to make little sense.  

    i am kind of glad carl is dying, i wish everybody would except maybe jerry.  and judith i guess.
  • A young boy dies, an old man lives.
    Fair trade.
    gguenot
  • It is official I will stop watching this show when y'all stop podcasting it.
    GruffyWinters
  • @cdrive my thought was that the Saviors didn’t really have that many bullets if any in last nights episode. They basically used what they had to get rid of the herd knowing Eugene would make more.  They bluffed everyone by having mostly empty guns. Of course I’m probably thinking way to logically for this one. 

    Also there are still people that like/love this show. I don’t get the vitriol towards those that express it.  Everyone doesn’t watch he way most of us do, much less listen to a weekly podcast about it. I liken this to GoT where people were up in arms about x,y and z. I have more than a few friends who still loved the episodes and where totally drawn in. While I get why people hate it, I don’t get the need to “attack” folks who don’t feel the same way. 
  • Even Hardwick seemed a bit frustrated to have to open up Talking Dead by asking whether or not one of the main characters on she show was dead or what was going on.

    [it will play out how bites always play out on the show... I thought bites were quite-rapidly debilitating and fatal after like a day?]

    Again they take a key emotional moment and then dilute the hell out of it by splitting it with the mid season break. Glenn dumpster fire, who did Negan kill, and now what happened to Carl. This is cheap soap opera story telling. I thought they’d figure it out after the drop in audience that happened after the Negan fiasco.

    Remember when they dealt with major deaths like a real drama? Dale, Shane, Lori, Andrea, one-legged Santa Claus, Merle, etc.
    EricFromOhiorusskelly
  • “The Plan” is still not really clear after 8 episodes so what was the point in not sharing it with us up front. The plan apparently involved Rick surrendering himself to the trash heap and ending up naked in a box surviving only by sheer improbable luck, so the plan was apparently dumb anyway.

    Sniper apparently means something different to Gimple. Why didn’t they snipe Negan when he escaped from the trailer with Gabriel? What about Eugene when he was exposed? Why would they all be dead after the saviors escaped, apparently without sniping any of the leaders, instead of warning the alliance that the Saviors were loose by sending a runner back or using... I don’t know... a damn radio???
  • The two things that made me quit that early in the episode were the telegraphing or Carl's death (as mentioned) and the whole thing with the saviors getting out. So if the dump truck allowed the saviors to clear the walkers without fear of snipers, wouldn't they simply open the doors and do that?

    As for people who like/people who hate the show: the proof is in the pudding. Other shows may have strong reactions online, but the remarkable thing for me is how the reaction to walking dead has been mostly indifference given how fast the ratings are falling. The something awful threads on the show went from being 2 threats that would get 500-600 posts during live watch to a single thread that gets maybe 60. I can't think of any other show falling that fast from the public's consciousness. In the span of a season and a half, the show went from 17 million viewers to 7. Not even the standard example of "show falling off a cliff," which is the X files, lost viewers this fast. It took two full seasons, the loss of one protagonist (Duchovny) and the other becoming part time (Anderson) for the X files to go from 17 million to 10 million viewers.
  • Haven't felt this way since True Blood. Staying on to see what's next, investment in the characters, etc, but losing faith anything better's going to happen before Negan's sunbathing naked in the alps.
    Also, the whole ep was way too dark (as in 'I can't see') Yeah, it's nighttime. It's also television. 

  • edited December 2017
    Since there's going to be a lot of (well-deserved) negativity surrounding this episode, I think it would be fun for Jim and A. Ron to discuss how ridiculous fatally wounding a main character off-screen is, while  pretending to be Jadis and Eugene. Someone mentioned on another TWD podcast that if Jadis and Eugene ever tried to have a conversation, it would be quite hilarious ... and I agree, but they didn't go for it. Will you guys give it a whirl around the ole digitized audio show recording space (my attempt at a Eugene-ism)? 

    PS - at least everyone can cancel their SLING TV subscriptions now? I only had it for TWD. 
    darthcaedus1138EricFromOhio
  • Try and find motivations that make sense for what people do in this show.  I dare you!
  • The morgalizing stuff seemed to make sense.
  • KingKobra said:
    @cdrive my thought was that the Saviors didn’t really have that many bullets if any in last nights episode. They basically used what they had to get rid of the herd knowing Eugene would make more.  They bluffed everyone by having mostly empty guns. Of course I’m probably thinking way to logically for this one. 

    Also there are still people that like/love this show. I don’t get the vitriol towards those that express it.  Everyone doesn’t watch he way most of us do, much less listen to a weekly podcast about it. I liken this to GoT where people were up in arms about x,y and z. I have more than a few friends who still loved the episodes and where totally drawn in. While I get why people hate it, I don’t get the need to “attack” folks who don’t feel the same way. 
    I had the thought that the saviors were bluffing without a lot of ammo too but maybe that's too much credit to TWD writing staff. We only saw I think one shot fired then a bunch of grenade launchers but they could not have used those grenades in clearing the walkers inside the sanctuary so that would make sense. Again maybe too much credit but I got the vibe they were bluffing about ammo.
  • Forgot Dwight's crew fired a bunch of bullets too
  • ok, to answer my question from earlier, apparently Simon's savior crew just let the Hill-toppers go back with Neil's body to bury it, without any sort of escort (for some reason).

    This doesn't make any sense at all, but I guess it fits in with how they are writing this season.

    Threw me off because with the lack of Saviors, and Maggie's determination to fortify defenses and whatnot, I got the impression that she wiped out Simon's bunch... but I guess not?
  • Really seems like Gimple is playing Chandler wrong, although I think there is a strong chance that they are somehow going to "heal" him (or it's not a zombie bite at all or something). 

    This is just Glenn-Dumpster-Gate all over again. Carl is too important for the ongoing plot comics-wise.
This discussion has been closed.