Benioff & Weiss to write/produce new Star Wars films

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  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    edited February 8
    mft9186 said:
    Why is there backlash with this news? I don't understand the diversity point for diversity sake. So now every movie must have a woman or African American person just for inclusion sake? It's like the force of a rule in the NFL called the rooneyrule where you must interview a black candidate even if they have no shot at the job. Shouldn't this be a meritocracy end of point? Not saying DD deserve to get this. I've never seen any star wars movies am just talking in general about this fake rage I see everywhere when a white person gets picked over anyone else. I say this as being a middle Eastern person not a white person btw 
    You might be interested in the podcast "Whiting Wongs", which features Dan Harmon and Jessica Gao essentially (creator and writer for Rick and Morty) explaining all this.  The upshot is, everyone wants a meritocracy, that indeed would be the most fair.  But because of many cultural and societal reasons, this level playing field doesn't exist. For example, if you write "a guy walks down the street", 99% of the time, central casting is going to give you a conventionally attractive white guy, since that is "the default experience".  If you write "a person walks down the street", 99% of the time you're going to get a conventionally attractive white guy, because male protagonists are seen as the "default experience" over women. 

    If you want this to change (and "this" permeates all levels of Hollywood, from the studio exec down to the writers, because they're all monolithicly white, male, and straight.  This isn't an evil cabal holding the little minorites down, it's essentially massive cultural blindspots they can't help but to have, just like there isn't an evil cabal of minorities trying to take down the evil straight, white, males, everyone just wants their fair shot at a seat at the table) you have to do it with intention and thought, which is why you see it as arbitrary and diversity for diversity's sake.  The flip side is there are a lot of non-white, non-male people with incredible talent that are not getting their chances because they're not "the default".  If they weren't getting their shot because they weren't as good, that would be one thing.  Since there is no meritocracy right now, there is little harm in deliberately writing roles for other races, cultures, lifestyles, because you can't destroy something that doesn't exist, but if you force it long enough, it might become self sustaining and you get the true meritocracy that you really want.

    Explore that idea with economics and other cultural elements and see how fast your politics change, haha.  If there is no existing meritocracy, then there is in reality a shit load of unfairness in the world, that benefits a few at the expense of the many and compounds and gets worse over time, and we either have to ditch what I think we all consider worthy and even dare I say it American ideals of justice, freedom, and upward mobility or concede that we've merely been telling stories to make ourselves feel good whilte playing lip service to those ideas and in fact have to work our asses off to live up to them.  
    JaimieTKingKobragguenotShumNoobieDoozDeeDaveyMacmft9186MrXblacksunrise7
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    ^^ Not like seconding Aron's opinion adds much weight, but Whiting Wongs is entertaining and enlightening. Dan pushes back on these "accepted" ideas of what diversity should be, which I like. I want to hear the reasoning from the ground up. So it's not just didactic. 
    A_Ron_HubbardDaveyMacblacksunrise7
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    edited February 8
    Yeah, Dan essentially plays himself from 10 years ago (which is the same as saying me from 10 years ago) as a foil, so the debate seems organic and doesn't allow Gao to run forward with a lot of advanced social justice concepts without properly establishing and validating them from first principles.  Honestly a lot of the friction from the two sides of the diversity coin come from ignorance of the other's point of view and ensuing assumption of bad faith.  

    Wanting things decided by a meritocracy is perfectly reasonable.  And pointing out that Hollywood is intentionally forcing diversity is not crazy or wrong.  You just have to connect those two dots and do the math before it works out.

    Edit: It should be mentioned that Whiting Wongs is a podcast designed to be listened to from episode 1.  It builds upon the discussions and concepts introduced in earlier episodes.
    JaimieTDaveyMacblacksunrise7
  • A_Ron_Hubbard very interesting way to look at the subject and I  will definitely check  out the podcast . I guess what I was ranting and raving about is this new outrage culture where everyone gets outraged so fast and it makes it more difficult to have a discussion about anything.Maybe it only exists on Twitter which have really became so toxic in recent years and maybe it's not really a representative of   the real world .  This week it began with Quentin Tarantino which am a big fan of . Never understood why his name had to be mixed up with a horrible monster like Harvey Weinstein. Most people don't read beyond the headlines and to them now they equate what Tarantino did to Weinstein actions.  
    You might be interested in the podcast "Whiting Wongs", which features Dan Harmon and Jessica Gao essentially (creator and writer for Rick and Morty) explaining all this.  The upshot is, everyone wants a meritocracy, that indeed would be the most fair.  But because of many cultural and societal reasons, this level playing field doesn't exist. For example, if you write "a guy walks down the street", 99% of the time, central casting is going to give you a conventionally attractive white guy, since that is "the default experience".  If you write "a person walks down the street", 99% of the time you're going to get a conventionally attractive white guy, because male protagonists are seen as the "default experience" over women. 

    If you want this to change (and "this" permeates all levels of Hollywood, from the studio exec down to the writers, because they're all monolithicly white, male, and straight.  This isn't an evil cabal holding the little minorites down, it's essentially massive cultural blindspots they can't help but to have, just like there isn't an evil cabal of minorities trying to take down the evil straight, white, males, everyone just wants their fair shot at a seat at the table) you have to do it with intention and thought, which is why you see it as arbitrary and diversity for diversity's sake.  The flip side is there are a lot of non-white, non-male people with incredible talent that are not getting their chances because they're not "the default".  If they weren't getting their shot because they weren't as good, that would be one thing.  Since there is no meritocracy right now, there is little harm in deliberately writing roles for other races, cultures, lifestyles, because you can't destroy something that doesn't exist, but if you force it long enough, it might become self sustaining and you get the true meritocracy that you really want.

    Explore that idea with economics and other cultural elements and see how fast your politics change, haha.  If there is no existing meritocracy, then there is in reality a shit load of unfairness in the world, that benefits a few at the expense of the many and compounds and gets worse over time, and we either have to ditch what I think we all consider worthy and even dare I say it American ideals of justice, freedom, and upward mobility or concede that we've merely been telling stories to make ourselves feel good whilte playing lip service to those ideas and in fact have to work our asses off to live up to them.  

  • Not advancing the conversation at all, but I just wanted to say thank you to @A_Ron_Hubbard for recommending the Whiting Wongs podcast. I was not aware of it and I’ve been plowing through all the episodes over the past week and it is not only really insightful, but also really funny and entertaining. And I love that it feels like a real conversation as @JaimieT pointed out. It’s right up my alley. 
    JaimieT
  • Garthgou81Garthgou81 Placerville, CA
    I was wondering how the Whiting Wongs thing would turn out when I first heard about it, it seemed like a pretty huge minefield. So I am glad to hear that it is good. 
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Witing wongs is easy wen you have fweehhhhhnds!
    DaveyMac
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