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Mthomp32 said:Doctor_Nick said:I doubt the show would have generated nearly the audience and critical acclaim it had had it started off with the quality of the last few seasons. Disappointing people is a tough thing, the D&D’s cut short the end on purpose. I don’t know why they apparently don’t have the sense of ownership for Game of Thrones that the Villigang have for the Breaking Bad world. I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to think you could’ve found people to do the last few seasons better.
Dividing the blame between GRRM and he D&Ds is purely academic. It’s the end product that matters.
Have you considered the idea that the fandom is actually honest? That there’s actually a significant quality drop off that people are legitimately complaining about? Look at Mr. Robot for example, the 2nd season was crapped on but I’m pretty sure the overwhelming majority of fans have climbed back on board after Season 3. The opposite has been happening with GoTMthomp32 said:A ron sounds so sad/angry in this final episode. I genuinely feel bummed listening to it.
I’ve noticed those who are really invested in the series (a lot of podcasters and journalists who comment and critique on the show) are totally outside of themselves. Everyone I’ve spoken to about this season (IRL) loves it and felt the conclusion was pretty fitting given that there is absolutely zero source material - meaning the story is inevitably less complex and truncated. But those people don’t geek out as much as me and listen to podcasts etc. I think the a rons and Dave Chen’s and Mallory rubins of the world have lost sight of two things:
1) it’s not you’re show. Might sound harsh but this show doesn’t belong to the fans. All of the creative decisions that you’re all lambasting were made with the intention to create the best thing they could (Also *they have no books*). Every critique I’ve heard is essentially around how said commentator would have set it up better...than the creators...as Sophie turner said in her ET interview this week: that is disrespectful (and honestly kind of delusional).
2) you - the thought leaders in this community - have an outsized impact on the general conversation online. So it’s a bit of a viscous cycle. Joanna Robinson writes 6 articles that come out 30 seconds after the show ends about how the show runners fucked up and then records 3 podcasts about how everyone thinks they fucked up? That’s a bit crazy making as a listened.
Ultimately, it used to be really fun to hear you all dissect and critique the show (talk about what you liked and didn’t like) but it’s become suuuuper depressing since the show ran past the books.
I want to state that this ending is pretty gorgeous IMO and the breaks in logic and storytelling are easy to forgive for me because (as George stated last week) the creators are missing approximately 3,000 pages of story.
Also: I think it’s totally fair to hate the end of the series but kind of weird to suggest that anyone knew a better way. There has never been a story that’s been told like this (I actually don’t think Lost, breaking bad, or any original series is actually comparable other than that fact that they were on tv and they were wildly popular). The closest comparison I can think of is true blood and when they changed show runners the show became a complete joke. In hindsight it’s easy to say they could have done it differently but 3+ years ago when the we’re making decisions about how to finish the series they didn’t have all the info we have today. It just seems really cheap and easy to say f u to the DDs after all is said and done and I feel like that part of the post-show discourse is unproductive and just really a bummer.
Aww_PHuuCk said:Listen if George ends it the same way, I'll blame him.
Ultimately, its not that he dies with Cersei or that he doesn't kill her that bothers me about the end of his arc. It's that he goes back because he's in love with Cersei.
Here's what I would've preferred. That he no longer loves Cersei but his feeling of responsibility towards his child and his honor/duty as a father & brother is what brings him back to her. That, for me, wouldve ended his tragic arc but also keep his redemption arc primarily intact.
I will say though I have a problem with D&D having Jaime say he didn't care about innocents. That's probably far worse than what the end of the arc was.
All the Chickens said:JIm and A.Ron keep saying that Arya is a "faceless man" or "No one." Perhaps she is only in the sense that she has some of their abilities, but not in every other sense that matters to the character or to her story arch.
In season 6 episode 8 titled No One, Arya marches up to confront Jaqen and show him the Waifs face. Jaqen praises her and says "finally a girl has become no one."
Then Arya defiantly says "A GIRL IS ARYA STARK OF WINTERFELL, AND I AM GOING HOME."
The whole point is that she took back her identity, and rejected the faceless men and their weirdo death cult. I think that they've done enough now to show that she isn't some emotionless killing machine character who just uses other characters to get what she wants in that moment (I mean, no more than any other average human does).