103 - "The Stray"

Director: Neil Marshall
Writer: Lisa Joy & Daniel T. Thomsen
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Comments

  • edited October 2016
    Really enjoyed this episode, things while "slow" are picking up steam. Bernard we now know will be responsible for the "revolution". Some of this seems to be connected to the loss of his son. Now that Delores knows she can kill, I have a feeling things may drastically change. Seeing the pyramid was also interesting, the last piece could be a number of things. Keeping it short as I want to see this episode again, but looking forward to see how things play out and the story expands.

    As a side note, it seems the bandits that were dressed up were either all guests or hosts that had been programmed not to take damage. They were shot a few times and didn't flinch (much like MIB).

    Edit: Almost forgot Bernard have her Alice in Wonderland. We have taken a leap into the rabbit hole folks, I hope you are enjoying the ride.
    BourbonQueen
  • The "that's what parents do" line is interesting. Bernard sees himself as a parent of the hosts, he's giving them tools in preparation of letting them go.
    manhattnikMelonusk
  • And MIB is probably Arnold, right?
    JamesBcraig3083GeorgeCory
  • cbspockcbspock San Antonio, Texas
    Really good episode. We finally got some backstory on the park. What was the voice Delores heard? 




    manhattnikCarrieShevs
  • cbspockcbspock San Antonio, Texas
    I sort of wish they would make it a little easier to tell the difference between host and guests, although I think the color of the hats has something to do with it. 
  • Something I haven't seen discussed much. What is the trigger event that makes Delores (or her father for that matter) say the "magic" words. It would seem that she would have said it to Teddy, but she stays silent after saying it to Maeve. Is this predetermined by Bernard on who exactly is to be set free and when?
  • cbspockcbspock San Antonio, Texas
    The map table reminds me a lot of the game maker table from the Hunger Games films. Is "West world" really in an outside environment or it is in a huge dome, using holographic tech to create the actual environment. I think the preview sort of answered some of this 
    CarrieShevsPeggyBweeniegirl
  • Fun little easter egg, the song the host was playing on the piano in Ford's office was "Reverie" by Debussy. I thought it was a nice touch.
    gjulleenmanhattnikMelonuskwildwildwhitjomiha
  • cbspock said:

    The map table reminds me a lot of the game maker table from the Hunger Games films. Is "West world" really in an outside environment or it is in a huge dome, using holographic tech to create the actual environment. I think the preview sort of answered some of this 

    I'm a firm believer the entire thing is an underground structure. The dome is projection, giving the sense of outdoors and scale, while the park is really fully contained.
    MichaelGBourbonQueenPeggyB
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    How involved is JJ Abrams in this show? Last week, I was considering the Lost parallels and wondering if Dolores is analogous to Jack Shephard, and this week, Dolores reads the same passage that Jack reads to Aaron. (Alice is Jack's theme as The Wizard of Oz is Ben Linus's theme).

    JACK: "Alice took up the fan and gloves, and, as the hall was very hot, she kept fanning herself all the time she went on talking: Dear, dear! How queer everything is to-day! And yesterday things went on just as usual. I wonder if I've been changed in the night. Let me think. Was I the same when I got up this morning?

    [Jack notices Kate smiling in the doorway.]

    JACK: [continues] But if I'm not the same, the next question is, 'Who in the world am I?' Aha, that's the great puzzle."
    lostinclevelandbrowniefive
  • JamesJames southern California
    KingKobra said:

    Something I haven't seen discussed much. What is the trigger event that makes Delores (or her father for that matter) say the "magic" words. It would seem that she would have said it to Teddy, but she stays silent after saying it to Maeve. Is this predetermined by Bernard on who exactly is to be set free and when?

    She said it to Maeve when Maeve interrupted her while she was "remembering." Don't know if that is why, but perhaps she has to be sort of outside her storyline for the "phrase that pays" to be triggered. 

    BTW Jim and Aron, my suggestion is that Luke Hemsworth be henseforth referred to as "Zeppo."
  • cbspockcbspock San Antonio, Texas
    We also learned in this episode only authorized hosts can actually work a "weapon". As to Delores, wouldn't there be lots of when she was in the garage vs in west world, even if Bernard is having her wipe her own logs! There should be monitoring everything.
    Doctor_Nick
  • manhattnikmanhattnik the big apple
    cbspock said:

    Really good episode. We finally got some backstory on the park. What was the voice Delores heard? 





    I'm guessing Arnold.
  • edited October 2016

    Very interesting episode. I've watched it twice, taking the notes the second time, and I still am pretty confused. I'm still believing the "William scenes are flashbacks" theory, but this episode sure made it much more muddled and unlikely. But interesting points (not related to that theory) from this episode are:

    Bernard and Ford are in Ford’s office, where the robot plays Debussy’s “Reverie”. We see flashbacks to the old labs with old logo. We learn Arnold was pursuing the creation of consciousness (First memory, then improvisation, then self-interest, then ?????????). We learn of the Bicameral mind approach Arnold took. It was scrapped, and the only vestige of that approach is the voice commands they use to control the hosts. Arnold became engrossed in the hosts, pursuing consciousness. We learn Arnold died in the park. Ford says Arnold committed suicide, but officially it was said to be an accident. Perhaps Ford killed him? Ford warns Bernard to not follow in Arnold’s footsteps. I think it's pretty apparent that the voice Dolores is hearing is Arnold's voice, but that's still up in the air.

    Dolores expresses “when I discover who I am, I'll be free.” There is no programmed reason that she said that. Bernard gives the evolution through mistakes speech. He implies he’s dropping her in the pool. This is her sink or swim moment cause “that’s what parents do.”

    I'm not sure if Wyatt's men are guest or hosts. They seem impervious to bullets, but earlier it was said that they “dress in the bones and flesh of his enemies.” Teddy also says “pain don’t slow ‘em, they don’t fear death.” So they could be hosts that are much more resilient than the others.

    And what is the significance of the Orion constellation? All I could find was that it is one of the oldest (maybe the oldest) recognized constellation in human civilization. 

    Also, I think it's interesting how "evil" Ford is starting to seem. He is firmly against the idea of the hosts becoming conscious, whereas Bernard is the one pushing them toward it. It will be interesting to see how that comes to a head later in the series. 

    Another interesting WTF? moment was when Dolores gets shot in the abdomen, and then the scene instantly resets and she is no longer wounded. Is this a Groundhog Day type thing?


    I sure feel bad for Jim & A. Ron this week, cause this episode was a doozy.

    JezzBourbonQueenmanhattnikMelonuskwildwildwhit
  • edited October 2016
    @darwinfeeshy i think the "reset" is just a different day. Much like we saw her putting the gun in the drawer one moment, she "glitches" then it's not there. What we are seeing are minute but critical changes to her storyline. These lines are repetitive, so basically everyday she is programmed to be brutalized by that group of guys after they kill her father. Her "glitch" allows her to remember what didn't work the last time and make adjustments to her narrative. Basically everything up until that point was "the same", that moment is where the deviation occurred (thus no need to watch it play out again prior to that point).
    manhattnikHunter
  • manhattnikmanhattnik the big apple
    Shit ton of explanation about Arnold and philosophy. I am imagining the "reverie" bug is allowing hosts to "hear" Arnold's long buried voice telling them to do shit. It also seems that the wood chopper host bashed his own head in so that it would be impossible for techs to discover what had been going on with his programming. It seems that Bernard is naively creating a Delores that could become an agent of Arnold's plan or his ghost in the code. I don't think Bernard wants a revolution, he seems too obsessed with his son and being a "father" again to plan it, or even have a clue how dangerous his meddling has become. I also thought Delores was lying when she said she wouldn't tell anyone about her chats with Bernard.

    Also, it looked like Delores got shot, but the bullet treated her as if she was a guest. She wasn't harmed at all. Likewise with Wyatt's creepy minions.

    It looks like a theme will be how the park tempts people to play God. And fuck up royally. Like Bernard with Delores, or Ford with his insanely creepy Wyatt story, or Arnold as the Voice of God.

    Whether or not hosts can feel, the sheer cruelty they inspire in guests is appalling.

    Elisa
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    @darwinfeeshy @KingKobra  I read that scene as Dolores remembering what happened (she gets shot) and deciding to escape instead (improvising & self-interest). Was her flash to MiB a memory of him instructing her to kill her would-be rapist when that (inevitably) happens to her in the barn? "Kill him."
    manhattniktom_gCoryMelonuskMurderbearweeniegirlThe Hand
  • "First memory, then improvisation, then self-interest, then ?????????"

    Empathy.


    JezzvoodooratCarrieShevsMurderbearjarrodtbbrowniefive
  • Is it possible that neither Ford nor Bernard are actually behind the coming robot revolution? 

    If we believe Ford when he essentially says he is just a creator of fancy clockwork machines, and we believe Bernard is really confused by the aberrant behavior of the hosts and the "violent delights/violent ends" malware then there must be a third party at work.  Note that this theory doesn't require Bernard to be wholly innocent; he could easily be tinkering with Dolores and working on her consciousness in his own way.  He does not necessarily know that someone else is making a move and that she is infected with the contagious malware. 

    If there is a third party out there, I imagine it might be related to the Man in Black's presence in the park. 
    Elisa
  • Loved this weeks episode, no surprise.

    I think the flashback theory is confirmed,  although the last scene really confused me and through my William=MIB theory into chaos.  
    • The old logo was shown again in the lab scenes as @darwinfeeshy pointed out.  I know there are those who credit the logo difference to production issues, but I feel like that is just too much of an oversight on a show that is all about interconnecting narratives and back stories.
    • Clementine doesn't say the line about "not much of a rind on you" in William's scenes, but she does in Teddy's
    • There are bandits in both sets of scenes, but they aren't the same.
    • The sheriff is different yet again in William's scenes, but in Teddy's we have sheriff Pickett back
    The Orion reference could be linked to a number of things.
    • It's the most recognizable constellation, so possibly chosen out of convenience
    • lots of nods to other Sci fi (Men in Black, Blade Runner)
    • it could signify that the woodcutter started to realize that there is something strange about the stars (I wonder if they move).  
    • Orion is a hunter, and possibly it's just a parallel to his seeking for something else
    When the woodcutter bashed his own brains, it was like he was telling the voices to stop.

    I still feel like Teddy is somehow modeled on William.  I'll come back to this after a rewatch.

    One thing is becoming clear.  Dolores and Maeve are experiencing memories, but for them it's not clear when these things happen.  (Ford mentions that Teddy has been killed at least a thousand times).  So I can make sense of her seeing the gun, and then not, and getting shot and then not.  It's meant to be confusing for the viewer as it's confusing for the hosts. It's why I'm hooked.

    More later.  Happy watching.

    manhattnik
  • amyja89amyja89 Oxford, England
    Interesting seeing that female guest come in to the park and get involved with the activities that the men have been dominating up to this point, what did Teddy give her when he put something in her hand and told her to run before the bandits killed him?
    Elisatom_g
  • Did they literally admit or openly hint that their security team are also hosts?  The comments that she made while looking for that rogue host:  "They let you have a gun?"   "They built that into my back story."  And a few other things.

    Also, the fact that Dolores was able to make a decision to shoot the gun even though she was not programmed to is HUGE.

    Questions:  The hosts that were hanging on a tree.  Were they supposed to be zombies?  Is that a part of the new story?    What's with the guys at the end that couldn't be killed?  I didn't think there were that many guests in the part at one time.

    I agree with the underground dome, as this has very much a "Hunger Games" feel to it - even to the control room area where they overlook the entire "arena."


    CarrieShevs
  • I continue to find their approach to the story really fascinating. This was the "backstory" episode with a lot of talk about host's backstories and James Marsden in particular finally gets a backstory that's not shrouded in mystery. In the meantime we are finding out Bernard's backstory and Arnold's backstory. Plus there's all the jokes with security about backstory. It's all very meta and out in the open which is really cool. 

    The stuff towards with Dolores seeing different versions of events and resetting really reminded me of Edge of Tomorrow and video games in general where you learn from past mistakes to change the way you play the level and the gut shot moment to me was like her getting a glimpse of how it has played out on occasion in the past and her deciding in that moment to do something different.

    Also, this episode did great job of showing how a guest could really get wrapped up in the whole thing even knowing it's fake.

    I am really digging this show and can't wait to see more. 

    Lastly, I've heard a ton of people referring to just Jonathon Nolan when talking about the show and the writing, but not a lot about Lisa Joy, who is the co-creator and has co-written the first three episodes, so I think we have to be giving her at least as much credit as Nolan and she should definitely be mentioned more often.
    ElisaKingKobraMelonuskwildwildwhitThe HandChiden2
  •  Also, it looked like Delores got shot, but the bullet treated her as if she was a guest. She wasn't harmed at all. Likewise with Wyatt's creepy minions. 

    I'm pretty sure that was a flash back, she was having them all episode.  Her day is a loop so at some point that situation happened to her before but this time she was able to shot Trevor (or whatever that guys name is)
    manhattnikwildwildwhit
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    So, it's been thirty years since the last "incident." Arnold "died" thirty years ago. The Man In Black has been coming there for thirty years, you could say he was "born" there. My guess is that Arnold loaded his consciousness into a host (MIB) and is now trying to figure out or maybe even right whatever Ford has been doing. I'm guessing he'd be able to change the system so that he's off limits somehow. (This is the gap that's hardest to bridge because why would Ford allow him to stay and seemingly give him VIP status? I think he enjoys the challenge of him solving this puzzle he's built and he also wouldn't want his friend to die a second time.)

    Maybe their philosophies really changed and he was against whatever Ford was doing and setup this new body for when he died. Everyone thinks it was suicide but Ford knows better. Cause he killed him! dun dun duuuuuuuuun!
    Elisamanhattnikphoenyx1023ghm3
  • @Murderbear ford's actually a host occupied by arnold's consciousness and the m.i.b. is ford's consciousness in another bot*.

    *note: this is not a serious theory and there is no evidence to support it.  also, i'm murderbear's consciousness loaded into a third bot.
    Murderbearbudesigns
  • edited October 2016

    Did they literally admit or openly hint that their security team are also hosts?  The comments that she made while looking for that rogue host:  "They let you have a gun?"   "They built that into my back story."  And a few other things.


    Also, the fact that Dolores was able to make a decision to shoot the gun even though she was not programmed to is HUGE.

    Questions:  The hosts that were hanging on a tree.  Were they supposed to be zombies?  Is that a part of the new story?    What's with the guys at the end that couldn't be killed?  I didn't think there were that many guests in the part at one time.

    I agree with the underground dome, as this has very much a "Hunger Games" feel to it - even to the control room area where they overlook the entire "arena."


    The "they built into my backstory" was a joke ;) the security guy was a human and a sarcastic one at that. As far as the hanging victims, it just added to the sadistic nature of the new bandits. They beat/torture someone to hear death, then leave them there for a guest to find. When the guest comes at the "right" moment the host "springs" to life to shock the guest.
    Murderbearphoenyx1023
  • amyja89 said:

    Interesting seeing that female guest come in to the park and get involved with the activities that the men have been dominating up to this point, what did Teddy give her when he put something in her hand and told her to run before the bandits killed him?

    It was a big knife I think.
  • UnderwoodUnderwood Philadelphia, PA


    I agree with the underground dome, as this has very much a "Hunger Games" feel to it - even to the control room area where they overlook the entire "arena."


    This is the conclusion that I'm coming to also. One thing to note, Bernard states about the process of evolution on "this planet". So I'm almost sure this is taking place on earth.
    wildwildwhit
  • cbspockcbspock San Antonio, Texas
    Wouldn't security know something is up with Delores? Shouldn't the garage be wired for complete surveillance? Plus shouldn't the security group know when hosts are in and out of WestWorld and when they enter the garage? Also, shouldn't someone notice gaps in Delores system logs?  Having basic cybersecurity practices in place would catch this. 

    When Delores shot the other host for trying to attack her, I think she was flashing back to when she was attacked by the MIB. She was seeing him when she pulled the trigger. "Existence! Survival must cancel out programming." Is she becoming self aware. Some of the themes reminds me of the old Trek episode "What Are Little Girls Made Of" 





    phoenyx1023wildwildwhit
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