Checkov's Non-linear Timeline
I wondering what you guys think of the theory that the events we are seeing with William and Logan are set 30 years in the past. Do you buy it. Is William the Man in black? I did not think this theory was true after seeing the pilot, but the last two episodes have been pushing me more in that direction.
Also, one small thing I noticed that may be nothing is that as far as I can tell Maeve, the madame, is not in any scenes with William and Logan. It doesn't prove anything, but perhaps it's because 30 years ago she was playing another role like the one from her flashback/dream.
Also, one small thing I noticed that may be nothing is that as far as I can tell Maeve, the madame, is not in any scenes with William and Logan. It doesn't prove anything, but perhaps it's because 30 years ago she was playing another role like the one from her flashback/dream.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
To address some points that have been brought up so far:
Maeve is noticeably absent from the William storyline. Clementine is the only prostitute he interacts with. We know Clementine was the madam at some point, which could explain Maeve’s absence if Maeve was off on the prairie with her daughter. In Clem’s scenes with William she never uses the “rind” pick-up line, and her performance gives off an air of confidence and being in charge that she lacks when Maeve is the madam.
As far as continuity, with episode 3 it has been asserted that anytime the camera cuts, you can no longer assume that new shot directly follows the preceding shot. Dolores’ loops at the end of episode 3 illustrate this fact perfectly. After a careful rewatch, I could not find a shot where William and Dolores were pictured in the same shot as Dolores exhibiting her new aberrant behavior. Unless you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that some events have to follow others (ex: MIB abducting Kissy and slitting his throat at night in ep 1, then MIB sitting atop a mountain with Kissy and 3 buckets of blood the next morning) it’s best not to assume consecutive shots are happening linearly in this show.
To address what happened “30 years ago”. The only thing we know for sure is that there was a critical failure 30 years ago, where presumably a host killed a guest. Most people are assuming the Westworld movie was this event, but again, this is an unsafe conclusion to leap to. In an interview with Nolan and Joy (I can’t remember where I read this, sorry) Nolan asserted that the “30 years ago” was only partly a nod to the film. I believe the show will eventually reveal it’s own version of the critical failure. In the same interview, they also alluded to the park being much older than you may think. They compared it to real world theme parks like disneyworld that manage to keep the audience's attention over several generations. Not to mention, if a park like this opened and had a criticial failure within it’s first few years of operation, do you really think it would grow to be as succesful as it’s become?
The best evidence, however, is the different logos. The showrunners have been very meticulous which logo is used where/when. Here’s all of the examples I’ve noticed so far:
Old Logo:
Sublevel B83: Former Atrium/Current Cold Storage - on the wall before entering cold storage room.
Ford’s flashback talking to Bernard about Arnold - Embroidered on labcoats.
William’s first visit - At the top of the escalator (shot lingers on logo after characters leave frame)
William’s first visit - In the dressing room on the wall.
New Logo:
Sublevel (25?) where Ford gets in the elevator - On a column.
Discover Westworld Website - Everywhere
Lee developing characters for his new narrative - on windows and walls.
Lee revealing narrative - same room as above
It could be argued that the William logos were a production mistake, that the scenes were shot before the showrunners came up with the new logo. But looking at how thorough they have been with which logo is shown where, why wouldn’t they correct this glaring incontinuity in post?
I believe they actually did change the logo in post, but they changed it from the new logo to the old logo. If you look at this picture
(which is a set photo and cover image from the Ep. 2 selection on HBO GO) it clearly shows William and the Host in front of the new logo. I find it difficult to believe that the showrunners would go back and edit/reshoot the logo if it carried no significance whatsoever.
In my opinion The Prestige, which Jonathan Nolan co-wrote, is a movie about making movies. Without spoiling anything I think the movie gives us a blueprint for how they do plot twists. I just think they would have a better big reveal planed for us.