105 - "Contrapasso"

edited October 2016 in Westworld
Directed by: Jonny Campbell

Story by: Lisa Joy & Dominic Mitchell

Teleplay by: Lisa Joy

Contrapasso , from the Latin contra and patior, "suffer the opposite": refers to the punishment of souls in Dante's Inferno, "by a process either resembling or contrasting with the sin itself."
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Comments

  • This was fantastic.  Also - please beware of the preview after the episode - it shows "the weeks ahead" and you might see more than you'd like. 
    ken haledarwinfeeshyElisaBrawnMelonuskMelvisN
  • Thought this was an excellent episode. They REALLY played with the different points in the timeline theory. We now have Lawerence in two different roles. The power meeting between MIB and Ford was tense. Teddy going from a "fake" sick to protector was a great way to show just how much everything is "acting". I may finally be crumbling to the William=MIB. Since he would have been following the path to the maze that Delores started. Not all of the pieces quite fit though. While there were some parts that I thought were edited poorly towards the end, for the most part I think this show just keeps getting better and better.
    darwinfeeshyElisaBrawnRobFlashGordonMelonusk
  • edited October 2016
    SPOILERS (and bitterness) BELOW

    This episode was the first that felt kind of mediocre to me, and has kind of limited my expectations moving forward.  There were a few winning scenes with Elsie, but the outcome of that felt underwhelming. The conversation between MiB and Ford was nice, but came out of nowhere, and lost a little impact as a result.  William's character, with his added backstory, became kind of incomprehensible to me, like I don't understand his motivation or actions at this point.  Bernie was useless this week, and is Teresa dead?  Where did she go?
  • Anyone else have a thought to Delores seeing the maze on the coffin on the train, and then showing that William or Lorenzo were not there from her POV?
    The Handdarwinfeeshy
  • Also - I thought William finally realized he wasn't getting any favors by being nice to his "boss" who brought him to Westworld, which is why he is saying fuck it and doing what he wants instead of being tagged along. 
    darwinfeeshyFlashGordon
  • Lots of evidence for different timelines in this one.

    Also, definitely don't watch the weeks ahead preview. Why do they even make those things?
    darwinfeeshyElisa
  • I think that Dolores is retracing her steps across 2 different time periods. Last episode we saw the little girl (Lawrence's daughter) disappear at the fountain. This episode we get 2 more instances of Dolores being in the exact same spot and her surroundings change.

    1. At the beginning in the graveyard outside Pariah

    Dolores alone:
    image

    Dolores w/ the gang:
    image

    2. Inside the caboose w/ the nitro caskets:

    Dolores with Will & Lawrence:
    image

    Dolores alone:
    image


    2 timelines for life!!!!!!!!
    ElisaThe HandBrawnFlashGordonMelonuskJezzmwspiak
  • cbspockcbspock San Antonio, Texas
    Interesting that Ford referenced a walled garden...pretty much describes West World....

    closed platformwalled garden or closed ecosystem[1][2] is a software system where the carrier or service provider has control over applicationscontent, and media, and restricts convenient access to non-approved applications or content. This is in contrast to an open platform, where consumers generally have unrestricted access to applications, content, and much more.




    Elisadarwinfeeshy
  • Stackpile said:

    Lots of evidence for different timelines in this one.

    Also, definitely don't watch the weeks ahead preview. Why do they even make those things?
    Seriously. I've been watching them the whole season, but this one went wayyyyy too far. I wish I could unsee it.
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    So, coincidence that the MIB talked to adult and young Ford? I'm still convinced that little kid is a representation of Ford as a child. But it's almost like he was acting as a spy. Ford could obviously track him if he wanted but I think he wanted to get up close and personal and see

    I think a lot of those flashes Dolores had were her writing a new story. There could be past memories but I don't think it's anything William was involved with. I mean, it's one thing to put her on a cycle of misery for thirty years but she has to wear the same clothes that whole time? That's a bummer.

    Any thoughts on what is up with the lazer pointer inside the stray? Maybe that's what Ford was talking about to Cullen last week about The Board sending someone to keep an eye on things and that's why we potentially haven't met them yet. They just had a host do it for them. Could be unrelated but just a thought I kept going back to.
    ElisaRob
  • Any thoughts on what is up with the lazer pointer inside the stray? Maybe that's what Ford was talking about to Cullen last week about The Board sending someone to keep an eye on things and that's why we potentially haven't met them yet. They just had a host do it for them. Could be unrelated but just a thought I kept going back to.

    Elsie told Bernard that it was a GPS transmitter or something. She said the stray wasn't tracing Orion, he was tracing a target (whatever that means) that is probably being used by some third party for nefarious purposes.
    WintersComingAfterFall
  • cbspockcbspock San Antonio, Texas
    A really interesting episode tonight. Delores' vision was creepy as hell when she cut herself open. 


  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Thanks for starting the thread. We had crazy issues with the Live Watch that sucked up the time I usually take to create the threads, and got me so agitated that I forgot. Thanks for covering for me.
    wireLOST24Georgememorygardens
  • cbspockcbspock San Antonio, Texas
    I don't get this two timeline thing at all, it would make the show more complex than it already is. 



    Elisa
  • So, coincidence that the MIB talked to adult and young Ford? I'm still convinced that little kid is a representation of Ford as a child. But it's almost like he was acting as a spy. Ford could obviously track him if he wanted but I think he wanted to get up close and personal and see

    I think a lot of those flashes Dolores had were her writing a new story. There could be past memories but I don't think it's anything William was involved with. I mean, it's one thing to put her on a cycle of misery for thirty years but she has to wear the same clothes that whole time? That's a bummer.

    Any thoughts on what is up with the lazer pointer inside the stray? Maybe that's what Ford was talking about to Cullen last week about The Board sending someone to keep an eye on things and that's why we potentially haven't met them yet. They just had a host do it for them. Could be unrelated but just a thought I kept going back to.

    Any thoughts on what is up with the lazer pointer inside the stray? Maybe that's what Ford was talking about to Cullen last week about The Board sending someone to keep an eye on things and that's why we potentially haven't met them yet. They just had a host do it for them. Could be unrelated but just a thought I kept going back to.

    Elsie told Bernard that it was a GPS transmitter or something. She said the stray wasn't tracing Orion, he was tracing a target (whatever that means) that is probably being used by some third party for nefarious purposes.

    It was a satellite uplink module (which are often depicted with "laser pointer". The "Orion" was basically the "map" to find the satellite to update data to. This was happening as far as they know outside of the prevue of everyone and obviously they need to know what data is being uploaded outside of the park.

    As far as previews, take them with large amounts of salt. They are often purposefully misleading.
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    edited October 2016
    Jesus, there is an alternate / parallel timeline. I ain't mad, just processing.
    KingKobraElisaThe Hand
  • Jesus, there is an alternate / parallel timeliness. I ain't mad, just processing.

    ONE OF US! ONE OF US!
    BrawnRobChiefPizza
  • cbspockcbspock San Antonio, Texas

    Jesus, there is an alternate / parallel timeliness. I ain't mad, just processing.

    So are we seeing the events that nearly destroyed the park 30 years ago play out again?



    Elisa
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    @KingKobra @darwinfeeshy Yeah I get all that but WHO is doing that is the question.

    So, was Maeve fully Arnold at the end?

    Also, whoever is crafting those hosts sure has a thing for giant bush! Ha! I feel like some of those pubes were unnaturally large.

    I usually watch the preview but I switched over to Walking Dead when the credits started. Maybe I won't go back to watch it.
  • @KingKobra @darwinfeeshy Yeah I get all that but WHO is doing that is the question.

    So, was Maeve fully Arnold at the end?

    Also, whoever is crafting those hosts sure has a thing for giant bush! Ha! I feel like some of those pubes were unnaturally large.

    I usually watch the preview but I switched over to Walking Dead when the credits started. Maybe I won't go back to watch it.

    1) of corse that is the question ;) if we knew that, right away what type of discussion would there be? :p

    2) what's "fully Arnold", she's awake much like Delores is wake. They are both playing possum (Delores with Ford, Maeve with the "cleaning team").

    3) Merkin (most are fake) it's one of the "rules"...Also, while I am sure grooming was around back then, they are "authentic" as possible.



  • LukeLuke Central Illinois
    To me this episode busted the parrallel timeline theory.  

    We had the MIB and Ford meet, they both referenced Delores with Teddy there.  They said she was with the people who killed Lawrence and were after Wyatt.  Aka William and Logan.  

    Logan and William are in the same timeline as MIB/Ford.  

    The flashbacks Delores are seeing are normal flashbacks, not some fucked up ouruboros timeline shit. 

    We also got confirmation that the current Hosts are more or less replicants, they are biological androids that are more or less indistiguisable from humans.  
    ElisaThe Handphoenyx1023tom_gSomeBiscuitMelonuskMelvisNDeeBulkySkull
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    KingKobra said:



    2) what's "fully Arnold", she's awake much like Delores is wake. They are both playing possum (Delores with Ford, Maeve with the "cleaning team").

    That was probably an incorrect way of saying that. I thought she had more knowledge than she should have had knowing the tech's name but thinking about it, I'm sure she just picked it up in the room. I can't wait to see where that goes.
    KingKobra
  • Luke said:

    To me this episode busted the parrallel timeline theory.  


    We had the MIB and Ford meet, they both referenced Delores with Teddy there.  They said she was with the people who killed Lawrence and were after Wyatt.  Aka William and Logan.  

    Logan and William are in the same timeline as MIB/Ford.  

    The flashbacks Delores are seeing are normal flashbacks, not some fucked up ouruboros timeline shit. 

    We also got confirmation that the current Hosts are more or less replicants, they are biological androids that are more or less indistiguisable from humans.  
    One thing I think is "confusing" things is that it's always been the same tinline (it shouldn't be talked about as "different timelines" The theory has been different t points within that same timeline that we are seeing.

    Lawerence has different roles when he was with the MIB and William/Delores. Delores is one of the hosts that has been there to "span" the timeline as she is one of if not the oldest host still in use. Her flashbacks are her own past (within the same timeline).

    darwinfeeshy
  • Love, love, love this show!
    I can't wait to see what happens with Maeve & Felix, and I can't wait to see what happens next with Delores & William.
    And Anthony Hopkins is just awesome. He could read a phone book and it's be great!
    ElisaBrawntom_g
  • Anyone else have a thought to Delores seeing the maze on the coffin on the train, and then showing that William or Lorenzo were not there from her POV?

    It seems to imply she's gone this route before on her own.
    wireLOST24
  • edited October 2016
    I think the thing that the voice is telling Dolores to "remember" is something that happens at the end of her adventure with Will. With this it mind, it would make sense why she is retracing her steps. I think that when Dolores is alone, it is during the "current" time period, whereas when she is with Will it is in the past. 

    I think that some big, consequential event happens at the end of Dolores & Will's adventure. This is what the voice is trying to lead her to so Dolores can remember it.

    This event is probably what Dolores is having flashbacks of the church, seeing all the dead bodies, etc.
    The HandRobElisa
  • LukeLuke Central Illinois
    @darwinfeeshy if you noticed in one of her flashbacks she saw dead Hosts shot down in what was clearly a hallway in the facility.

    I think at this point it's 99% certain we are seeing glimpses of when Arnold died. Ford pretty much nailed that for us this episode since he confirmed Delores is the only Host active left that knew Arnold.

    The bigger mystery to me is who exactly is smuggling data. In wondering if the big twist in this is going to be one of the other engineers, maybe even Bernard, are working for a rival firm and will use the bots to take Ford out.

    You would have to do something drastic because I'm pretty sure Ford is untouchable within the park itself. The Hosts seem hard wired to obey and protect him.
    The HandElisa
  • Doctor_NickDoctor_Nick Terminus
    edited October 2016
    Pretty fascinating stuff.

    Ford's conversation with Dolores suggests strongly we could easily be seeing different points in time.

    "Have you been dreaming again, Dolores? Imagining yourself breaking out of your modest little loop?  Taking on a bigger role?....."

    "Have you been hearing voices?  Has Arnold been speaking to you again?"

    It's also quite interesting given what we find out about the stray with the laser uplink, later in this episode, that Ford is avidly inspecting Delores's hands and forearms during the conversation.

    This episode with William and Lawrence in the past may be one of the first instances of Dolores breaking the loop and trying to take on a bigger role. Lawrence as El Lazo and Lawrence with the Man in Black are clearly out of sequence with each other.  
    darwinfeeshyThe HandElisa
  • Lawrence as El Lazo and Lawrence with the Man in Black are clearly out of sequence with each other.  
    Lawrence as El Lazo is still Lawrence though.  Since he died in the MiB story, this could possibly just be recently respawned Lawrence at the beginning of his loop.  If we saw El Lazo Lawrence before seeing him die in the MiB story then that would indeed be strongly indicative of dual timelines.  Not arguing against dual timelines btw (from what we've seen so far I'm 50/50 on it) just felt like pointing this out. 
    Doctor_Nickdarwinfeeshypodcartfanphoenyx1023The Handken hale
  • edited October 2016
    Here's an article that blew my mind! IDK if I completely agree with it, but it's definitely great food for thought. 

    It posits that Bernard is an android, who is also a replica of Arnold, and every scene with Bernard & Dolores is a flashback to Arnold (Bernard) interacting with the hosts.

This discussion has been closed.