The Americans - Season 5

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  • @dochielomn much like the scientist who was already buried, if their partner was infected burining him could have spread the virus. There wa as clear "do not burn" tag on the scientist which is why they didn't. Burying him with the scientist was the safest move. Not sure people are just going to go dig up a biohazard "just because".

    As far as a slow opener, I think this show is far enough along where he goon is there or it isn't for the most part. Not sure they "need" a lot of action, etc episode 1, they've almost always done the slow burn route.
    Elisa
  • @KingKobra , i'm guessing there are safe ways to burn and not spread the virus into the atmosphere.  Wasn't just thinking that they would take the guy out into the woods, dump some gasoline on him and throw a match on the body.  Just figured there would be a way to dispose of the body permanently.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't need a ton of action to make me say "wow, this was a great episode".  There was ways to do it with just good dialogue (I think back to the one episode where I think it was Elizabeth got caught by some old lady and they spent most of the episode just going back and forth talking before Elizabeth finally killed her, I just remember loving that episode and thinking it was great because of their dialogue) and story telling.  At this time, I don't have any connection to a storyline about Phillip's long lost son returning.  Pretty sure at the end of last season I felt the same way as I do now.  It feels like a twist just for the sake of a twist as oppose to something more organic and that has been coming since season 1.  Like, we all know at some point in the story, Stan is going to find out.  I really look forward to that.  But instead, we're getting a side story about Phillip's son coming to America to find his dad and doesn't really have a plan after that.  Just doesn't appeal to me, that's all.

  • @dochielomn if the government doesn't have a way to cremate how do you expect them to? (This is the point). They couldn't risk any smoke/dust/etc getting out that contained the virus, so they bagged him and then buried him in a sealed metal coffin in an unmarked grave. They had no way to safely transport their partner anywhere and couldn't risk him being infected. Best thing is to put him with the doctor and cover their tracks.

    He just found out about his son, so there is that. Now they are setting up the reunion. How will his son react when he finds out that his father has another family? How will this effect Phillip? There are a number of roads this could take. If his son just showed up, it would kind of suck and people would complain there was no setup to that reunion.
    Elisa
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    edited March 2017
    @dochielomn Mischa was first mentioned in S1, then brought up several times in S3&4 for the Afghanistan storyline. Elizabeth even went so far as to ask the Centre for a favor (which was a huge step for her): to get Mischa out of the war. Mischa has been hanging around the periphery of the story, and his appearance in the finale was a surprising but welcome development for me. I'm excited to see what happens.

    EDIT: Mischa's appearance was surprising but not completely unexpected. I expected him to pop up eventually but was not necessarily expecting him in the S4 finale. 


    ElisaKingKobraTheEconomist
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  • @KingKobra, I'm not buying the gov't doesn't/didn't have a way to safely cremate the body.  That's my line of thinking.  As for the Russian guy that Elizabeth shot, I have no issues what happened there and even expected it once he showed them that he was cut.  My immediate reaction was "well, he has to be killed now".

    @pavlovsbell, I understand that Mischa has been mentioned before but so has Ronald Reagan if he want to play that game.  Doesn't mean I have to see him on the show.  Mischa was mentioned as a side character not really playing any role in the actual storyline.  We didn't see Phillip say "well, now I have to go to Russia to find/meet him".  At least, I don't recall (would have to go back to the original episode where Mischa's mother and Phillip meet in season 1).  I know Mischa was mentioned during the stuff for Afghanistan, but once again, a side character, not pivotal to the show.  If Mischa died in Afghanistgan, Phillip would have felt sad but it wasn't going to break him or really make him weep (like had it been Henry or Paige getting killed).  To me, this storyline now just feels forced like "how else can we introduce conflict, oh I know, let's bring in Phillip's son Mischa".  I think if they were going down this road, I'd rather see Mischa show up on the Jennings doorstep and have the interactions now and then we can get flashbacks as to how he traveled to the US as oppose to how it's being played out now.   Unless you can point me to an article from the show creators saying that they intended from season 1 to have Mischa be a part of the show, I'm just not on board and think it's a copout to add more drama.

  • "Shrug" you're going to believe what you want to believe regardless of what is shown on the show, not much to discuss.
  • Well, it's also a fictitious tv show that we're talking about and not based an actual true events, :).
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  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    When I saw the reveal of William (still in his bloody gown even!), my first thought was why did they not cremate him. But it's not unbelievable. To paraphrase Tatiana, Americans gonna Americans. And that was in reference to the government subcontracting bioweapons research and testing to an independent medical facility. That was in the 1980s. Some 30 plus years later, our regard for the environment and safety is hitting a new low (see Flint, Michigan, oil pipelines, dismantling the EPA, etc.).

    Fort Detrick is referenced often in films and television, and for good reason. Last year, a federal judge dismissed a $750 million class action lawsuit that alleged the Army was reckless in its handling of chemical and biological toxic waste disposal, leading to environmental contamination and the illnesses and deaths of over a 100 families in the area.

    FWIW, under the AV Club's review for this episode, commenter Mickey Spumante posted the following:

    So doing a bit of research it appears that corpses meeting the biosafety level 4 criteria (which is what Lassa fever falls under) can either be buried or cremated - the main thing is to do it as quickly as possible, and, if the corpse is to be buried it should not be embalmed and should be wrapped in leak-proof plastic and put in a sealed steel casket ASAP (these are guidelines from 1988). So it appears the treatment of William's body would have met the allowable circumstances of that time.

    -source: Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report: MMWR, Volume 44, Issue 25, pages 475-8.

    tom_gKingKobraTheEconomistelgat0Elisa
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  • TheEconomistTheEconomist Chattanooga, TN
    edited March 2017

    Well, it's also a fictitious tv show that we're talking about and not based an actual true events, :).

    It's historical fiction that's been researched, though.

    I heard on another podcast that the writers submit their scripts to get cleared by the CIA so while being meticulous it's not compromising actual stuff but they said they've been requested to change things before they get so close to home.

    pavlovsbell
  • TheEconomistTheEconomist Chattanooga, TN

    When I saw the reveal of William (still in his bloody gown even!), my first thought was why did they not cremate him. But it's not unbelievable. To paraphrase Tatiana, Americans gonna Americans. And that was in reference to the government subcontracting bioweapons research and testing to an independent medical facility. That was in the 1980s. Some 30 plus years later, our regard for the environment and safety is hitting a new low (see Flint, Michigan, oil pipelines, dismantling the EPA, etc.).


    Fort Detrick is referenced often in films and television, and for good reason. Last year, a federal judge dismissed a $750 million class action lawsuit that alleged the Army was reckless in its handling of chemical and biological toxic waste disposal, leading to environmental contamination and the illnesses and deaths of over a 100 families in the area.

    FWIW, under the AV Club's review for this episode, commenter Mickey Spumante posted the following:

    So doing a bit of research it appears that corpses meeting the biosafety level 4 criteria (which is what Lassa fever falls under) can either be buried or cremated - the main thing is to do it as quickly as possible, and, if the corpse is to be buried it should not be embalmed and should be wrapped in leak-proof plastic and put in a sealed steel casket ASAP (these are guidelines from 1988). So it appears the treatment of William's body would have met the allowable circumstances of that time.

    -source: Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report: MMWR, Volume 44, Issue 25, pages 475-8.

    This is not incredible to me. In fact depending on the facility, the prepping and transporting a body to cremate then decontaminating the machine further may be a bigger hassle and risk than taking the dead body in the isolation room where it expired, zipping him up, putting him in a box, welding it shut and just burying it.

    Like if any of the fumes or smoke from the cremation couldn't be correctly contained that's just asking for trouble. It's why incinerators for trash sound better than landfills but then you realize the toxins burnt released into the air is far worse.

    pavlovsbell
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    I always forget how dense and complex this show is - they never dumb anything down or use Dana Scully/Olivia Benson explanations for the audience. I have to pay attention and even then I have to read recaps and comments to fill in the gaps I'm not bright enough to figure out alone.

    I'm disturbed by Tuan. Is this some orphan child they just took from somewhere and taught to raise himself? Is that a thing? :-/

    Am I imagining that you do a podcast on this show @pavlovsbell? Or was it someone you know?
    Elisapavlovsbell
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    edited March 2017
    @Dee Yes, it's Directorate S. I am curious about Tuan as well. I think he is a few years older than he's supposed to be, but young enough-looking to pass for high school age. Is he Vietnamese Intelligence working with the KGB? Or is he a refugee (boat people) who was recruited by the KGB, similar to how Gregory was an example of the KGB recruiting people from the Civil Rights Movement or Hans from the Anti-Apartheid Movement? I got the sense that it may be the former because he referred to Elizabeth and Philip / KGB as "you people," and he reminded me a lot of Lucia (the Nicaraguan agent in S2). He might turn out to be a loose cannon, or perhaps they'll surprise us because they've already done that with Lucia and Jared. After all, they can't all die. Some young spies have to grow up to be old spies.

    OTOH, Tuan could be a refugee, and that may be why he is so outraged by Alexei. It's one thing to flee your country but another to work with the enemy to harm your country and the innocent people there. I'm looking forward to seeing where they take this story, especially with Tuan as a mirror of sorts to Paige. 
    ElisaDee
  • Yeah, we don't have a firm answer as of yet to how Tuan got to working with Phillip and Elizabeth.  Could just be 2 communist countries working together to take on the USA and so perhaps they share agents from time to time and worked out some sort of agreement.  I mean, other than Phillip and Elizabeth stopping by from time to time, does Tuan even have any sort of adult supervision or someone to help him get simple stuff like food/groceries? 
    Elisa
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  • An interesting episode last night.  I still didn't think it was great, but I didn't think it was bad.  I'm really enjoying the Russian dad defector character.  Just find him funny.  But his storyline is also interesting. 

    For Paige, I think Elizabeth is going to drive her to have sex before she would have if left alone.  I just get the feeling that had Elizabeth not mentioned anything about sex that when Paige and Matthew started to make out, Paige would have kept it at that rather than not try to stop Matthew from taking it a little further.  But instead, I think part of Paige was just telling herseld that she's going to make her own decisions and not allow her mother to control her.

    Also starting to wonder how Stan's new potential girlfriend is going to play into things.  If she's not who she really claims to be or if something is going to happen with her.  Otherwise, for storyline purposes, then I don't see the point to spending any real time on her character.

    Finally, I'm in total agreement with Stan about using Oleg.  But I think ultimately, Oleg might crack under the blackmail pressure from the CIA if they go after his parents.

  • Oleg is not long for this world.
    Elisa
  • MrXMrX CO
    edited March 2017
    Oh no not Andrea ... run Stan run!

    I got a very X-Files vibe (alien-human hybrid bees!) when Elizabeth was in the greenhouse with the bugs.

    Yea it's not looking good for Oleg. Although since they already went down the route of getting killed back in Russia with Nina, hoping they find some unexpected way for him to get out of this situation.

    I also get a feeling that Tuan's storyline isn't going to have a happy ending.
    Elisa
  • manhattnikmanhattnik the big apple
    I just realized. Irina Dvorovenko. One of the most glamorous ballerinas I ever saw. Not known for subtle acting onstage. But, wow. God for her.
    Elisa
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  • Interesting to get a Martha cameo in last night's episode.  I wonder if she'll pop up again or not (I'd guess this was just a 1 time thing).  Also was very interesting to watch Oleg guilt trip that manager of the grocery store.

    I did enjoy the Misha storyline last night as things were actually happening with him.

    Found it fascinating that when Phillip and Elizabeth went to Oklahoma, that they didn't actually talk on the walkie talkie's, just hit the button to indicate to go and "someone's coming".  And it was interesting to see that Randy could tell that someone had been in the lab but once Phillip and Elizabeth revealed themselves and started to ask the questions they were asking, he should have known that there was no way he was getting out of this alive and just kept his mouth shut. 

    Also, I wonder if Paige could go back and unlearn the truth, would she?  She ultimately would be happier.  She's not a real believer in what Phillip and Elizabeth are and what they do but since they're her parents, she's willing to keep their secret.

    Elisamanhattnik
  • I don't find cowboy hats sexy - sorry.  

    I hope a Martha story line happens.
    Elisa
  • tom_g said:

    Oleg is not long for this world.

    Or maybe they'll turn him?
    That's why he would not be long for this world ;)

    With this weeks episode it seems they have cornered him and sunk Stan.

    Enjoying this season immensely.
    Elisa
  • MrXMrX CO
    edited March 2017
    The brutality of scenes where Elizabeth and Phil kill people is always so shocking. This time with the lab director; it was just much more disturbing than your typical PG-13 movie snapped neck.

    Martha! Maybe Stan goes rogue and somehow gets into Moscow to save Oleg and ... oh hey, Martha, fancy seeing you here!
    Elisamanhattnik
  • MrX said:



    Martha! Maybe Stan goes rogue and somehow gets into Moscow to save Oleg and ... oh hey, Martha, fancy seeing you here!
    Or actually, what if Oleg sees Martha and is somehow able to trade her back to the US for them to leave him alone since she is still wanted by the FBI.  Then again, not sure if the CIA would care about this or who gets to make this decision.
    Elisamanhattnik
  • MrX said:



    Martha! Maybe Stan goes rogue and somehow gets into Moscow to save Oleg and ... oh hey, Martha, fancy seeing you here!
    Or actually, what if Oleg sees Martha and is somehow able to trade her back to the US for them to leave him alone since she is still wanted by the FBI.  Then again, not sure if the CIA would care about this or who gets to make this decision.
    Has Oleg ever seen Martha though for him to be able to recognize her? I guess the rezidentura probably had info on her and maybe he came across it at some point
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