U.S. Politics episode 4: A New Thread

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  • There are many areas in the country with access to only one broadband ISP, and more with access to only two. Free market forces are limited by lack of alternatives. If everyone had access to 5+ ISPs, then this would be a better arguement
    FlukesDaveyMacBrawnNoobieDoozweeniegirl
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    Not exactly a political story, but developing here in my neck of the woods. 

    Amtrak Cascades 501 from Tacoma to Portland derailed this morning in DuPont Washington at the rail bridge near Mounts Rd on I-5. the train cars are on the freeway blocking it. the interstate is closed, over 70 patients are being transported to local hospitals and reports of multiple fatalities, number unknown. 

    This is the first day Amtrak used that bridge. this train for years left Tacoma and went along the shore of Point Defiance and through the old railroad tunnel, but the state had to pay freight operators for schedule priority because this was the freight route, so the state and the railroad operator just spend a lot of money refubishing a rail line through Lakewood bypassing the old tunnel, this track was part of that bypass route. 

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2017/12/18/amtrak-train-derails-in-washington-state-rail-cars-fall-onto-interstate-5/?utm_term=.34690622de6f

    I feel really terrible, I'm an Amtrak guest rewards member and have used this train frequently and recommended it to others. This was supposed to be refurbished for high speed travel and they use European cars made for that... 
    Aww_PHuuCk
  • not a new story

    link


    joschman
  • edited December 2017
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    edited December 2017
    Not exactly a political story, but developing here in my neck of the woods. 

    Amtrak Cascades 501 from Tacoma to Portland derailed this morning in DuPont Washington at the rail bridge near Mounts Rd on I-5. the train cars are on the freeway blocking it. the interstate is closed, over 70 patients are being transported to local hospitals and reports of multiple fatalities, number unknown. 

    This is the first day Amtrak used that bridge. this train for years left Tacoma and went along the shore of Point Defiance and through the old railroad tunnel, but the state had to pay freight operators for schedule priority because this was the freight route, so the state and the railroad operator just spend a lot of money refubishing a rail line through Lakewood bypassing the old tunnel, this track was part of that bypass route. 

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2017/12/18/amtrak-train-derails-in-washington-state-rail-cars-fall-onto-interstate-5/?utm_term=.34690622de6f

    I feel really terrible, I'm an Amtrak guest rewards member and have used this train frequently and recommended it to others. This was supposed to be refurbished for high speed travel and they use European cars made for that... 
    Yeah that's a really sad story. I wonder what happened. 
    Looking like maybe clearing the curve too fast. 

    Im not at my desktop but I made some google earth maps that put this into context, I’ll see if I can link them up later.

    it was surreal, because I’ve ridden that train many times, in fact I have recommended people ride the train instead of drive to Portland and have put many Facebook posts up about it, and so I got messages asking if I was ok from friends on Facebook.,,

    And I’m so glad I wasn’t on the train, both in general, and because I’m a snob who rides business class and going southbound the business car is third behind the engine and baggage car 

  • Probably will restart this thread after New Years.
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    edited December 2017
     Here's a map I made of this, so the mainline is shaded green, the train used to take the mainline which goes to the shore of puget sound and to Tacoma, this map only shows where the mainline meets the subdivision. 

    The subdivision is shaded red. this is the end of the new route, they were less then a kilometer from the junction where they would rejoin the mainline. 

    note the sharp curve before the I-5 freeway. This curve is signed for 30 m/h (50km/h) The Train was traveling at 82 m/h (130km/h) when it was last pinged by GPS just before the derailment 

    https://www.debatepolitics.com/attachments/breaking-news-mainstream-media/67226252d1513632754-amtrak-train-derails-washington-fatalities-reported-amtrak-4-jpg
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    The BNSF Centralia-North dispatch audio, the conductor of the train (not the engineer) radios in after the derailment. 


  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    DaveyMac said:
    I’m sure you’ve got loads of statistics and legal explanations to tell me why I’m wrong, but saying price gouging can’t exist in a free market sounds ridiculous to me. There are lots of services that are necessary to modern life and getting ahead in the world that people feel compelled to pay even if they can’t afford it. And the privatization of these servers, especially when there’s little to no competition severely impacts the quality of peoples’ lives. And they don’t have a choice or a platform to demand lower prices and they can’t just stop using these services either. I’m not saying they should be free. I just don’t buy your “price-gouging” doesn’t exist premise.
    Ok so let's pretend these greedy ISPs just decided to charge everyone 1 million dollars a month, what would happen? well everyone would stop buying internet, and thus the internet would no longer be necessary for modern life because no one could afford it and thus business models would be re-worked around that. 

    So price gouging could not exist, because once the price exceeds what people will pay for it they will stop buying it and in a society where nobody is buying it the rest of the economy will follow.
    l. 
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    tom_g said:
    Go back and look at the conversations around the time of the 2017 hurricanes. If I remember correctly, according to some here, price gouging (water in particular ) was the fault of the buyers.
    there's no such thing as price gouging. the market price of bottled water increased because of increased demand for that product. again I used an example of the spring of 2012 when we had a gasoline shock here on the west coast, the market price for gasoline went up by a $1.50 a gallon near overnight. I was making minimum wage and had to fill up my little pickup truck at 4.35 a gallon. so I ended up finding other classmates at college who couldn't afford to fill up their cars at 4.35 a gallon and we carpooled to school sharing our resources. now if the government had just come in and said "well you evil price gougers you must now charge only $2.90 a gallon then the gas stations would've been empty or fuel would've been rationed. what was better for me the consumer? 


  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    DaveyMac said:
    I’m sure you’ve got loads of statistics and legal explanations to tell me why I’m wrong, but saying price gouging can’t exist in a free market sounds ridiculous to me. There are lots of services that are necessary to modern life and getting ahead in the world that people feel compelled to pay even if they can’t afford it. And the privatization of these servers, especially when there’s little to no competition severely impacts the quality of peoples’ lives. And they don’t have a choice or a platform to demand lower prices and they can’t just stop using these services either. I’m not saying they should be free. I just don’t buy your “price-gouging” doesn’t exist premise.
    Ok so let's pretend these greedy ISPs just decided to charge everyone 1 million dollars a month, what would happen? well everyone would stop buying internet, and thus the internet would no longer be necessary for modern life because no one could afford it and thus business models would be re-worked around that. 

    So price gouging could not exist, because once the price exceeds what people will pay for it they will stop buying it and in a society where nobody is buying it the rest of the economy will follow.
    l. 




    CretanBullDaveyMacNoobieDoozGredalBee
  • FlukesFlukes Calgary, Canada
    Not everyone thinks the price for things as important as water, electricity or the internet should be ever so slightly below whatever causes people to quit buying it all together.

    That you can't tell the difference between a short-term shortage of a fixed resource and the systematic milking of consumers while simultaneously stifling competition I can't imagine anyone will have much luck pointing it out to you.
    CretanBullNoobieDooz
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • tom_g said:
    Go back and look at the conversations around the time of the 2017 hurricanes. If I remember correctly, according to some here, price gouging (water in particular ) was the fault of the buyers.
    there's no such thing as price gouging. the market price of bottled water increased because of increased demand for that product. again I used an example of the spring of 2012 when we had a gasoline shock here on the west coast, the market price for gasoline went up by a $1.50 a gallon near overnight. I was making minimum wage and had to fill up my little pickup truck at 4.35 a gallon. so I ended up finding other classmates at college who couldn't afford to fill up their cars at 4.35 a gallon and we carpooled to school sharing our resources. now if the government had just come in and said "well you evil price gougers you must now charge only $2.90 a gallon then the gas stations would've been empty or fuel would've been rationed. what was better for me the consumer? 


    Googling 'price gouging' produces 1,360,000 results.  Depending on where you are, price gouging can result in fines and/or criminal penalties, so, it is very real.

    What's better for you the consumer? - not being exploited.
    BrawnNoobieDooz
  • tom_g said:
    tom_g said:
    Go back and look at the conversations around the time of the 2017 hurricanes. If I remember correctly, according to some here, price gouging (water in particular ) was the fault of the buyers.
    there's no such thing as price gouging. the market price of bottled water increased because of increased demand for that product. again I used an example of the spring of 2012 when we had a gasoline shock here on the west coast, the market price for gasoline went up by a $1.50 a gallon near overnight. I was making minimum wage and had to fill up my little pickup truck at 4.35 a gallon. so I ended up finding other classmates at college who couldn't afford to fill up their cars at 4.35 a gallon and we carpooled to school sharing our resources. now if the government had just come in and said "well you evil price gougers you must now charge only $2.90 a gallon then the gas stations would've been empty or fuel would've been rationed. what was better for me the consumer? 


    Googling 'price gouging' produces 1,360,000 results.  Depending on where you are, price gouging can result in fines and/or criminal penalties, so, it is very real.

    What's better for you the consumer? - not being exploited.
    Some people, rather insanely, really believe that a purely free market will always solve all problems and result in the best system for all involved, even though the most basic economics courses teach you that many industries will tend towards monopoly if left truly free and that the free market is fundamentally flawed when it comes to dealing with externalities, two huge problems that can only be solved with regulation.

    Industries like the internet and other utilities are especially prone to the monopoly problem - if they were allowed to restrict access to infrastructure freely, it would be nearly impossible for a new company to enter the market. 
    voodooratBrawnNoobieDoozDaveyMac
  • gguenotgguenot CA
    edited December 2017
    Alkaid13 said:
    Probably will restart this thread after New Years.
    US Politics Episode 5: The Emnofseattle strikes back?
    GredalBee
  • Fucking price gouging, how does that work?
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • MrXMrX CO
    edited December 2017
    So are we not going to talk about how Harry Reid was secretly funneling money to the real life X-Files?? I would gladly give up my forthcoming unnecessary tax cut to fund the shit out of discovering and talking to aliens.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-program-ufo-harry-reid.html




    DaveyMac
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  • Someone did a really great job breaking down what it would take to pull off something like this without anyone noticing and its impossible. Starting with the rental of 800 buses in order to get the numbers needed to swing the vote.
  • Frakkin TFrakkin T Currently Offline
    gguenot said:
    Someone did a really great job breaking down what it would take to pull off something like this without anyone noticing and its impossible. Starting with the rental of 800 buses in order to get the numbers needed to swing the vote.
    Good thing for Bill Mitchell that Trumpkins are allergic to logic & facts. 
  • Follow up to the big Virginia election last month: there was one more delegate seat to be decided under a recount. The incumbent Republican had initially won by 10 votes. After the recount today, it appears the Democratic candidate will win by ONE vote, and there will be a 50-50 split in the State House. Potentially big news for Virginia allowing Medicaid expansion under Obamacare.

    Here's Mike Schur's tweet on it:


    pavlovsbell
  • US House of Representatives just passed a version of tax reform that is not compliant with Senate reconciliation rules, so they’re going to have to vote on it again.

    Can you imagine all of the errors and loopholes that will be discovered in the next few months after this monster becomes law?
    pavlovsbell
  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto
    edited December 2017
    CNN's front page sums up the election a year after the fact...



    EDIT: The "league of it's own" that Trump's approval rating is at is an all-time historic low for a President in his first year of office.
    Frakkin TpavlovsbellPhoebes89
  • Frakkin TFrakkin T Currently Offline
    HRC has to be the first unemployed 70+ grandma who ever had their favorability rated by The Hill. 
    CretanBullpavlovsbellasmallcatFlukesPhoebes89
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    CNN's front page sums up the election a year after the fact...



    EDIT: The "league of it's own" that Trump's approval rating is at is an all-time historic low for a President in his first year of office.
    I expect Trump and his followers to be bizarrely obsessed with Hillary Clinton, but CNN and Gallup? Give it a rest. The GOP is performing a smash-and-grab while Trump is further alienating our allies and bringing us closer to new wars... increasing racial unrest... daily sexual misconduct exposés... children losing healthcare... DACA... but I guess Hillary gets the clicks. No, systemic misogyny is not a problem.

    The Senate just passed the tax bill 51-48. The House will revote again tomorrow and pass it. Joy Reid reported that a source told her that Republicans are "cashing out." I think that there are some who are confident that they will stay in office due to a combination of gerrymandering, massive donor support, and voter suppression. Plan B is if they get voted out, they will be even wealthier millionaires or they will earn even more as lobbyists or consultants. I almost wish I were religious so I could believe they will burn in hell for the damage they have inflicted.

    I am also disappointed in Gov. Cuomo's veto of what would have landmark legislation: NY providing tax incentives for diversity in TV filmmaking (hiring female and POC directors & writers). Although Cuomo stated reasonable concerns, if he were truly invested in this important issue and wanted to put NY on the map for turning the tide on this long overdue issue (CA and IL are considering similar legislation), he would have worked with legislators prior to stunning everyone with a veto. It's just $5 million -- that's not a huge amount of money, all things considered.

    On a brighter note, the Virginia news is excellent news. Every single vote counts. And elections have consequences.
    CretanBullPhoebes89
  • I read a really good article about the current Congress and the tax cut in particular and the writer summed it up as the baby-boomer's last gasp, it's their F-you swan song because they know their time is up.
    pavlovsbell
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    I read a really good article about the current Congress and the tax cut in particular and the writer summed it up as the baby-boomer's last gasp, it's their F-you swan song because they know their time is up.
    It is absolutely appalling. GOP = Greed Over People. I have been embarrassed to be an American before, but now I am ashamed. It will take a long time to dig ourselves out of this mess, and if the Democrats take back the Senate in 2018, they will be painted as the bad guys for raising taxes -- of course, I accept that -- but I shudder to think about the damage will have been done.

    Mitch McConnell cites this tax bill as his second-greatest achievement. The first being, of course, Neil Gorsuch's appointment (by holding that seat hostage for a year). Imagine being proud of wholesale theft and destruction.
    CretanBullPhoebes89
This discussion has been closed.