Westworld Podcast concerns

awookiee

I'll preface this by saying I'm a somewhat new member and listener to Bald Move, I was 1st enlightened to Bald Move in August of 2017.  My main concern is that listening to the podcast might spoil some of my enjoyment as discussions of theories and speculation are a big part of what podcasts cover, which is rightfully the point of a podcast.  Having not listened to Bald Move coverage (because I was behind on the shows or behind on the coverage) of most shows until after I've watched the entire season (mainly thinking Mr. Robot and Westworld), I had never been spoiled by any of the theories and speculations. 

My main example is Mr. Robot season 2, the big prison reveal.  At that time I wasn't listening to any podcasts and never suspected that until it was revealed halfway through the season.  I know in the end it is my decision and I will probably listen week to week because I enjoy listening to Jim and A.Ron but I am wondering if there's anyone else out there that have had similar thoughts or experiences and what their thoughts on the matter are.  

Dee

Westworld was - not ruined, but I did get kind of meh about it in the end because of all the discussion. It wasn’t just BM, though that’s my main TV hangout so that’s where I saw most of it. I feel like these days every prestige drama is a mystery that people fall over themselves to be the first one to solve, and honestly, I don’t want to do that - I just want to let the story unfold and go where it’s going. I’ve already decided that this year I’m not reading any discussion or listening to any podcasts about Westworld until after I finish watching the whole season. 

TL;DR - I hear you, mate. 

KingKobra

Didn’t ARon say he was out of the theory game for Westworld? 

WonderedObject

I’m going in dark this time around. I’ll miss the guys every week but I’ll just binge listen once the season wraps up. 
Its not just the spoilers that really got to me. It’s the constant harboring on trying to prove a theory true. I’m not talking about the guys, it’s EVERYONE. The beating and beating and beating over the head on them just got annoying. Everyone would nitpick every single detail to prove the multiple timeline theory. And then when it finally came true???? All the smugness was too much for me, almost ruined the show. I guess I should blame myself for still listening but I learned my lesson. 
Great show, not a great show to follow online. For me personally. 
I really hate internet points. 

Garthgou81

Yeah, "mystery box" shows (Mr. Robot & Westworld) I have stopped reading forum threads as well as the podcasts. I still download them automatically with the firehose feed, so the boys get their downloads. But I then go back after the season is over and listen to them. 

russkelly

I am only going to listen to Jim and Aron for Westworld.  I am fans of other podcasts that shall remain nameless, but in terms of Westworld and Game of Thrones, I don't have time for... Spoilers. With me, there is a difference between fan speculation and a leak, you know? Like, if as part of a forum, we talk about something that turns out to be a spoiler, that's fine, as opposed to listening to a podcast talk about reddit leaks as if they are their own ideas.I trust Bald Move in this regard. They won't do us dirty.

aturner1205

I thought the BM podcast really enhanced the show more than spoiled it. Westworld explored concepts like the bicameral mind, well tempered claviers and others that I had never heard of, and it was great to hear the guys and other fans dive into the topic. It made me appreciate how well read the show was. Yes, somethings were “spoiled” ahead of time, but mostly the “person A is really person B” plots and others that ended up kinda being small potatoes in the grand scheme. I’m in the A Ron camp where speculation based off evidence that comes true doesn’t really spoil the show for me. It’s the leaks from production like the last season of GOT that I steer clear from. 

I find this podcast and their GOT pod more enjoyable to listen to contemporarily. There were so many twists and theories that evolved from each episode that it was fun to contemplate them each week, but the speculation become a little tedious after you know what really happens. 

Murderbear

I personally loved all the theory crafting and speculation. There was a big one that I was catching vibes on for Westworld that I and a few others were trying to push and I think it really bugged A.Ron. So much so that he curbed all talk about it because he personally thought the theory was too crazy........Aaaaaaand then it turned out to be true. The clues were there from the very beginning!!

I'm the kind of person that wants to talk about everything out there. I don't want any ACTUAL spoilers, but I want to consider any theory you've got. I heard a lot of people say they didn't like that. And that's fine, everyone enjoys things differently. For me personally, it only makes it better.

Murderbear

Maybe each Westworld episode should have two threads. A normal spoiler filled episode discussion and a theory crafting thread. Then you can decide for yourself how deep you go. Just a thought.

Hunkulese

If you're not interested in deep discussion and speculation on the show, there's little reason to listen to the podcast. At least not until you've watched it yourself. 

JaimieT

Murderbear said:

I personally loved all the theory crafting and speculation. There was a big one that I was catching vibes on for Westworld that I and a few others were trying to push and I think it really bugged A.Ron. So much so that he curbed all talk about it because he personally thought the theory was too crazy........Aaaaaaand then it turned out to be true. The clues were there from the very beginning!!

I'm the kind of person that wants to talk about everything out there. I don't want any ACTUAL spoilers, but I want to consider any theory you've got. I heard a lot of people say they didn't like that. And that's fine, everyone enjoys things differently. For me personally, it only makes it better.

Now I'm speculating about a podcast, but here's a little projection: When it comes to TV shows I care less about what's going to happen. So theorizing about it gets tedious. There are exceptions, but it's usually on a character level, such as a famous theory about Harry Potter in book 7 that ended up being true. Over-arching plot constructs, I just don't care. It's boring. I'd rather just watch. So, I'd guess that's why A.Ron was bugged by it, IDK.

What was it, by the way? I've seen season 1. I don't recall much of the finale though, LOL, too much going on and less happened with character development.

Murderbear

@JaimieT SPOILER as a just in case for others but it was about Bernard being an android. It felt like they were hinting at it pretty early on and it just felt like it was right there and when A.Ron said discussing it at all was off the table, it was fine but I just didn't understand why. At the same time, as I'm writing this, I guess I can see how being the host of podcast, you're being sent every single crazy idea someone has, it can get frustrating and overwhelming. So, I guess I just wished they enjoyed it as much as I do. It's fine they don't. I think this show is all about solving mysteries. A lot of the time, we are learning things at the same time the characters are so it just invited all that sleuthing and theory crafting.

JaimieT

Murderbear said:

@JaimieT SPOILER as a just in case for others but it was about Bernard being an android. It felt like they were hinting at it pretty early on and it just felt like it was right there and when A.Ron said discussing it at all was off the table, it was fine but I just didn't understand why. At the same time, as I'm writing this, I guess I can see how being the host of podcast, you're being sent every single crazy idea someone has, it can get frustrating and overwhelming. So, I guess I just wished they enjoyed it as much as I do. It's fine they don't. I think this show is all about solving mysteries. A lot of the time, we are learning things at the same time the characters are so it just invited all that sleuthing and theory crafting.

SPOILERS. Ah, yeah. Because whether he is or is not an android doesn't really impact that much in the show, at least the elements of the show we were exposed to anyway. It just means Anthony Hopkins is in deeper than we thought; it was just a matter of degree.

I remember all that now. Good call on your part!

MrBlack

I thought I’d wait til the season ended before listening to the podcast to avoid spoilers but then I thought about my experience season 1 and I am way to dense to pickup half the subtle hints and clues the show leaves behind. Listening to the podcast as the season progresses and listening to them talk about subtle clues or theories makes it a lot more enjoyable for me, but I understand the other side of the argument so I can’t blame anyone for wanting to wait until it’s over. 

johnnytruant

I think the issue here may be pretty specific to the season one reveal.  I didn't like the reveal more so due to the fact that the twist retroactively changed what story was being presented and once you knew it was coming you were just waiting for the punch (or hoping it wouldn't come in my case). I'd be surprised if they'd be able to come up with some kind of season long mystery of the scope of old/young William now that they've got the ball rolling, and I kinda hope they wouldn't feel the need to do some type of Shyamalanian twist each season. 

Anyway, if I remember correctly, BM at least presented differing theories, it was more the internet hive mind that lead to the pre-mature "reveal". If I had stayed off reddit and just heard the guys spit balling, I dont know that I'd have found anything conclusively spoilery.

gguenot

Murderbear said:

@JaimieT SPOILER as a just in case for others but it was about Bernard being an android. It felt like they were hinting at it pretty early on and it just felt like it was right there and when A.Ron said discussing it at all was off the table, it was fine but I just didn't understand why. At the same time, as I'm writing this, I guess I can see how being the host of podcast, you're being sent every single crazy idea someone has, it can get frustrating and overwhelming. So, I guess I just wished they enjoyed it as much as I do. It's fine they don't. I think this show is all about solving mysteries. A lot of the time, we are learning things at the same time the characters are so it just invited all that sleuthing and theory crafting.

I thought he was on board for Bernard being a robot (ps Jim’s a robist) and it was the dual timeline theory that he didn’t want to hear about. 

Murderbear

@gguenot I could totally be remembering it wrong... I was pretty sure he wanted to curb all talk of it because it just kept coming up. My brain keeps thinking it was around the time Bernard had that video chat with his wife. I am also willing to admit I don't totally remember and I could be confusing the two different theories.

Shum

@Murderbear. I remember that now.  Aron definitely shut down Robot Bernard theories after the video chat with his wife.

I just read Sepinwall's review of the new season and it sounds like this season might be less reliant on the puzzle box aspect of the show.  I'm sure there will still be room for theory crafting, but I tend to enjoy more straight forward story telling, so I'm very excited for the new season.

Murderbear

And I want to clarify here, I hope that I can say what I'm thinking. If they decide to continue to do less of the fan theory stuff, I'm totally okay with it. I personally do not understand the perspective of people who think that someone trying to figure stuff out early and making a semi educated guess can spoil things for you but that's totally valid! People enjoy things differently! And when you're hosting a podcast, you want to reach as big of an audience as possible and if that stuff is actively turning people off, then maybe get rid of it or at least cut it way back.

I said it before but the style of this show was completely inviting people to figure it out as they went along with the season. I tried my damndest to stay away from any actual spoilers or leaks or any of that stuff. I enjoy meaningless internet points but I want to EARN them, not just have them handed to me using tainted information. I do hope we can keep a thread or a place for that stuff to live this season. It's the biggest reason I got into this show.

JaimieT

I suspect this show will be like The Expanse.

Season 1 - Worldbuilding, a "what's going on here?" mystery involving jumping around the timeline somewhat
Season 2+ - Dealing with the fallout of the solved mystery

I think the mysteries might be gone, and good riddance IMO. I loved how The Expanse did it, but the Westworld season 1 reveal made it so I don't really care to revisit season 1. 

awookiee

Murderbear said:

And I want to clarify here, I hope that I can say what I'm thinking. If they decide to continue to do less of the fan theory stuff, I'm totally okay with it. I personally do not understand the perspective of people who think that someone trying to figure stuff out early and making a semi educated guess can spoil things for you but that's totally valid! People enjoy things differently! And when you're hosting a podcast, you want to reach as big of an audience as possible and if that stuff is actively turning people off, then maybe get rid of it or at least cut it way back.

I said it before but the style of this show was completely inviting people to figure it out as they went along with the season. I tried my damndest to stay away from any actual spoilers or leaks or any of that stuff. I enjoy meaningless internet points but I want to EARN them, not just have them handed to me using tainted information. I do hope we can keep a thread or a place for that stuff to live this season. It's the biggest reason I got into this show.

I personally don't consider fan theory and semi educated guesses as spoilers but it's something that I question if I want that in my viewing of a show like Westworld.  I feel partially like an idiot but I never once caught on to Bernard being a host.  It was 100% a shock to me when that was revealed and I feel like if I had heard that theory in the podcast it would have partially ruined that moment.  Same goes for the dual timelines, I didn't catch onto that until very late in the season.  After listening to the guys coverage on season 2 of Mr. Robot (after I watched the entire season) they were extremely disappointed and I feel a big part of that is because they expected and were waiting for the prison reveal.  Whereas I didn't hear any theories regarding that and while I thought season 2 wasn't nearly as good as season 1, I still thought it was very good.  

I'm still debating what I want to do and I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one that has these feelings.  Podcasts are made for enjoyment of whatever topic.  In a show like Westworld that fun comes from theories and guesses at what's happening and what's going to happen.  You can't do a podcast on Westworld without including those things.  In the end it's a difference of whether you want fan theories in your head while you're watching the show or whether you want to try and figure it out by yourself.  The guys do an amazing job with their podcast and I will always support them.  With that said, if I choose not to listen week to week with Westworld, how can I help them get their Westworld Podcast to the top of the list when people search for coverage?

mwspiak

I'm going to listen to the guys as usual. My first main reason is they may explain something's that I don't understand which will enhance my enjoyment of the show. The second reason is I will get spoiled anyways by social media and the internet. I just don't think you can remain unsullied in this day and age. 

A_Ron_Hubbard

One of the reasons Jim and I we're so anti-theorizing on WW was because it came on the heels of True Detective seasons in and two, Fargo season two, and Mr. Robot season two. Say what you want about those shows and how good or bad they are, but I think it's pretty obvious that a lot of the heavy theorizing that when into that show and obsessing over whirls and fonts and book covers turned out to not be important to the series at all, and maybe even harmed the enjoyment of the shows. 

We brought that baggage into Westworld for better or worse, and it flipped the script on us by making virtually every weird or non obvious hint or detail pay off handsomely. 

How we handle season two is going to be interesting. As we discussed in this week's Lunch, I'm pretty invested in the theorizing, Jim thinks that Westworld has played it's hand and going forward will be more straightforward and less mysterious. Regardless, there will be a LOT of people obsessively looking at the show frame by frame, and it's going to be my job to sort out the nutters from the people who are on to something, because there will be just no fucking way to give air to every idea someone has about the show.

The other thing we could do, and I'd have to talk to Jim about this, is split off theory to a pod released later in the week, so people who want to hear that can and people who just want recap and analysis can skip it. At the very least we can segregate that info on the show similar to how we do spoilers. Not sure how that would work, since we'd have to be strict about not discussing that in the pod propper, which may stifle the main pod a bit.

tabs64

Lots of words a_ron but I will keep it simple. I understand it's your living - I get it (Negan lol)

But tv podcasts have to theorise. Simply just talking through scene by scene and what happened is not a good podcast. You have to talk about theories. It's a not good situation to 
be in but I have to say if you love a tv show and don't want to be spoiled then don't listened 
to any podcasts.

awookiee

tabs64 said:

Lots of words a_ron but I will keep it simple. I understand it's your living - I get it (Negan lol)

But tv podcasts have to theorise. Simply just talking through scene by scene and what happened is not a good podcast. You have to talk about theories. It's a not good situation to 
be in but I have to say if you love a tv show and don't want to be spoiled then don't listened 
to any podcasts.

I agree with you with this and that is the reason I am questioning whether I want to listen or not.  The point of a good podcast based on a TV show, especially a show like Westworld, is to theorize and speculate.  Looking at what A. Ron had said I don't think he's even thinking the idea of not theorizing or speculating.  He was talking about possibly splitting it into 2 pods but there's no way they are going to take out the theorizing part of their podcast.

Flukes

Shum said:

@Murderbear. I remember that now.  Aron definitely shut down Robot Bernard theories after the video chat with his wife.

I just read Sepinwall's review of the new season and it sounds like this season might be less reliant on the puzzle box aspect of the show.  I'm sure there will still be room for theory crafting, but I tend to enjoy more straight forward story telling, so I'm very excited for the new season.

Good to know. I'm more interested in the story than I am about figuring out what's going on.

Michelle

Loved the preview cast!  This season’s gonna be wild. Looking forward to the ‘instant talk’!  

JaimieT

Does anyone remember what good YouTube season 1 recap A.Ron was talking about?

Garthgou81

@JaimieT This is it 

MrX

Bald Move got a shout out in a Lifehacker article about their favorite Westworld podcasts:

https://lifehacker.com/westworld-s-back-pick-your-westworld-podcast-1825400890