204 - The Riddle of the Sphinx

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Comments

  • MoonMan13 said:
    Totally on team MiB too. Maybe I'm misremembering or clouded by my enjoyment watching the character, but do you all think they really wrote/portrayed him as rotten to the core? Probably just Ed Harris.
    Ed Harris is just playing what they wrote...he’s a very dark grey. Much like many shows they sometimes make you root for the villain. 
    MoonMan13
  • MoonMan13MoonMan13 Northern Kentucky
    KingKobra said:
    MoonMan13 said:
    Totally on team MiB too. Maybe I'm misremembering or clouded by my enjoyment watching the character, but do you all think they really wrote/portrayed him as rotten to the core? Probably just Ed Harris.
    Ed Harris is just playing what they wrote...he’s a very dark grey. Much like many shows they sometimes make you root for the villain. 
    I agree. But as compared to Walter White, for example, MiB is nowhere near as appalling or evil seeming as he eventually becomes.
  • MoonMan13 said:
    KingKobra said:
    MoonMan13 said:
    Totally on team MiB too. Maybe I'm misremembering or clouded by my enjoyment watching the character, but do you all think they really wrote/portrayed him as rotten to the core? Probably just Ed Harris.
    Ed Harris is just playing what they wrote...he’s a very dark grey. Much like many shows they sometimes make you root for the villain. 
    I agree. But as compared to Walter White, for example, MiB is nowhere near as appalling or evil seeming as he eventually becomes.
    Walter White wasn’t Walter White in season 2. We’ve already seen William/MIB do very dark things (ones perception may be skewed depending on how they look at hosts). 
  • MoonMan13MoonMan13 Northern Kentucky
    Now I feel dark.
    I love the hosts!
  • MoonMan13 said:
    KingKobra said:
    MoonMan13 said:
    Totally on team MiB too. Maybe I'm misremembering or clouded by my enjoyment watching the character, but do you all think they really wrote/portrayed him as rotten to the core? Probably just Ed Harris.
    Ed Harris is just playing what they wrote...he’s a very dark grey. Much like many shows they sometimes make you root for the villain. 
    I agree. But as compared to Walter White, for example, MiB is nowhere near as appalling or evil seeming as he eventually becomes.
    Hey, they both are fine with murdering children, at least some of them are robots. 
  • It was only a little Lilly of the Valley.  

    Giovanni said:
    MoonMan13 said:
    KingKobra said:
    MoonMan13 said:
    Totally on team MiB too. Maybe I'm misremembering or clouded by my enjoyment watching the character, but do you all think they really wrote/portrayed him as rotten to the core? Probably just Ed Harris.
    Ed Harris is just playing what they wrote...he’s a very dark grey. Much like many shows they sometimes make you root for the villain. 
    I agree. But as compared to Walter White, for example, MiB is nowhere near as appalling or evil seeming as he eventually becomes.
    Hey, they both are fine with murdering children, at least some of them are robots. 

  • Hi Jim and A.Ron, you'll probably never get around to even reading this post but in case you do, please let me tell you that after four episodes I have come to really, really like the new format with recap and discussion of themes at the beginning and tin foil speculation at the end (which I personally don't really care for). I kind of enjoy the philosophical discussions so much (just to name one, the whole discussion of "is a copied consciousness really the same person") that I look forward to the podcast more than the actual episode by now. Very well done, I happily pay my membership fees exactly because of stuff like this :)

    JaimieTMurderbearmajjam0770KingKobrarkcrawfDoubleA_Ron
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    Just thinking. If I was Jim Delos. I would prefer to be put into like my 30 year old body. I understand why it makes sense to choose the body you die in cuz of the mental awareness. But shit. If I was to die I’d tell them to put my conciousness into a more peak version of myself. 

    Also after watching episode 4 again Juliet clearly kills herself much earlier than Ed Harris timeline. You see him walk with a limp and very slow but in the flashback he’s running up the stairs. Probably has no meaning to the story they are telling but it definitely is noticeable that William is still young when his Wife dies. 
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    edited May 2018
    I was thinking with the nitro scene, it was a combination of the nitro being particularly explody in this world and also, they have an explodable disc in their neck. I thought those two things working together is why we hot the big boom......or it could just be that it looked cool and I'm okay with that.
    manhattnik
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    edited May 2018
    I was thinking with the nitro scene, it was a combination of the nitro being particularly explody in this world and also, they have an explodable disc in their neck. I thought those two things working together is why we hot the big boom......or it could just be that it looked cool and I'm okay with that.
    I don't think that the writers or director were wanting us to think about the device in their neck helping the explosion be bigger while watching this scene, so my assumption is just that it looked cooler than it might have in real life and they went with it.

    And these hosts take so much wear and tear throughout each day in the park, I doubt that the neck device would be triggered by another explosion hitting it or a bullet, or else they would be further damaging the hosts unnecessarily each day. Also, I'm assuming that the device in their neck is just an extremely small explosive that only does enough damage to destroy one vertebra to sufficiently detach their skull from their spine and thus disable the host brain from controlling the body; so even if the device could be triggered to explode by another explosive device, it wouldn't be noticeable. 
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    You're probably right. But we did see a shot of nitro explode earlier in the episode when Craddock shot the bartender's hand and that seemed like a realistic amount of explosion and force. I do think it's most likely that they juiced it a little to give us a satisfying explosion taking out that asshole.
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    I would love just have a discussion about immortality and how each person feels about the concept as far as whether or not they would want to live forever, or at least live long past the natural human life cycle.

    I say yes, but not in the James Delos way by creating a copy of my body and a copy of my consciousness (memories, thoughts, personality traits, behaviors, etc). If I were still alive and could see and talk to this copy of me before I died, then I would know the new "me" that they created was not really me and therefore I would know I'm still going to die while this new being lives on in my place. The copy of me they created would only be for my loved ones to have some version of me to speak to, which would be comforting idea for me before I died, but would serve no real purpose for me actually extending my life. Now, if they could truly transfer my consciousness from this body to a new shell (thus instantly killing my current body and breathing my life into a new body), then sure, I want to see what Star Wars XXV and Avengers 18 looks like. 

    I do like the idea of slowly replacing your body parts (including parts of your brain) with new, bio-mechanical parts, so that you could continue to feel as if you are retaining the feeling of what makes you "you" during the transition into an immortal being. 
    Murderbear
  • lengmolengmo RTP, NC


    I do like the idea of slowly replacing your body parts (including parts of your brain) with new, bio-mechanical parts, so that you could continue to feel as if you are retaining the feeling of what makes you "you" during the transition into an immortal being. 
    The Bod of Theseus paradox.
    manhattnik
  • edited May 2018
    Not sure if anyone has gone this route yet, haven't had time to read all the posts, but what if the reason William hands the script to the Jim Delos is to show that the process hasn't worked yet. I mean, what if the reason for the script is to see if the clone has become sentient and cognizant in this iteration? By sticking to the script, this version is showing that it's still not thinking for itself.

    I think this ties in with the way a lot of the hosts seem to gain consciousness the more they die and have their memories wiped. Like when the woman (can't remember her name) killed Teddy towards the end of season one when she told him he wasn't there yet and maybe the next time he came back from death before she killed him.
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    edited May 2018
    @All the Chickens Have you played the Deus Ex games? I love the way they portray the augmentations you can buy for your body. I think that is the route I would prefer. (Unless the Nixon's head in a jar on a robot body from Futurama is an option ha) But I really dig the class war stuff they portray in Deus Ex with the Augs vs the humans stuff. Especially in the newest game, Mankind Divided.
  • On the cast A.Ron opines about what physical dissonance would be like (in comparison to cognitive dissonance). I'd imagine the trans community would have a good way of explaining it. Sorry if I'm relaying it wrong, but I believe they feel trapped in someone else's body or uncomfortable in their own body which is what I would think "physical dissonance" would be like.
    JaimieTMurderbear
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    So re:MIB, is playing Ford's game the only way he sees to bring down the park? He seemed genuinely pleased by the host revolt. At first I thought it was because the stakes were now real and he was mostly just a gamer. But now it seems he really is disillusioned with the park's existence. I guess he has enough control to run a semi-secret project, but not enough to bring the park down through more traditional means? 

    If he does want to bring the park down, did he know the revolt was coming somehow? How would any of this plan have worked without the revolt? He was just going through the normal park reboots before, and we know he's done it for years right? He attacked Maeve at some point (why did he do that?) He dragged Dolores to the barn in one of her loops. Why the apparent cruelty then, and why the apparent sympathy for the hosts in this most recent episode? Why suddenly have emotions in any direction when it comes to the hosts? 

    I'm wondering if he's been attacking all the hosts like he attacked Kissy, and just didn't find anything until he got to him. 

    With Emily, how much time do we think has passed between the tiger attack and meeting her father? At the end she seems to have escaped the Native American hosts, cleaned up and got a whole set of Western clothes. It's just a few seconds, but she seems really chill in that last scene, considering all she's been through and what's going on in the park.
    majjam0770
  • LukeLuke Central Illinois
    So we now know that ANY one human in the show could be a copy. The 30 day stability window means that we know who Ford was printing in the basement lab of his cabin last season.  It is whoever he had Bernard print a personality core of.  

    One huge compliment I have to give the show is the William scene when it was raining.  Both me and my wife are getting just on the border of being bored and wondering where this was going and then BAM.  Ed Harris is just killing it this season.  

    I almost wish that there wasn't the Delores storyline because I really feel like that actress (and to be fair it could be the writing/direction) is being put to shame by Harris and his performance.  
  • chrisk said:
    So re:MIB, is playing Ford's game the only way he sees to bring down the park? He seemed genuinely pleased by the host revolt. At first I thought it was because the stakes were now real and he was mostly just a gamer. But now it seems he really is disillusioned with the park's existence. I guess he has enough control to run a semi-secret project, but not enough to bring the park down through more traditional means? 

    If he does want to bring the park down, did he know the revolt was coming somehow? How would any of this plan have worked without the revolt? He was just going through the normal park reboots before, and we know he's done it for years right? He attacked Maeve at some point (why did he do that?) He dragged Dolores to the barn in one of her loops. Why the apparent cruelty then, and why the apparent sympathy for the hosts in this most recent episode? Why suddenly have emotions in any direction when it comes to the hosts? 

    I'm wondering if he's been attacking all the hosts like he attacked Kissy, and just didn't find anything until he got to him. 

    With Emily, how much time do we think has passed between the tiger attack and meeting her father? At the end she seems to have escaped the Native American hosts, cleaned up and got a whole set of Western clothes. It's just a few seconds, but she seems really chill in that last scene, considering all she's been through and what's going on in the park.

    He thinks possibly the only way to advance in the parktk see what Ford has in store for him. While he may be head of Delos, the board still has “control”. 

    No, which is why he gave the look of surprise in the finale last season. It really depends I his true end goal. Putting “what if’s” May spiral things out of control. He’s playing his assigned game right now, I wouldn’t say anything has really changed except he knows Ford has the power. 

    That was supposed to be part of the story, but the actor died so they changed things up (which is why we haven’t seen it again until this season). 

    A day or two maybe? There are clothes available all oflverbrhe park if you either take them from a host or find a home/dwelling. I’m not sure why she wouldn’t be as she’s in no real danger since she sees her father. 
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    Interesting comments from Ed Harris about William.

    "To me, he's a good guy, particularly in this season, in terms of what he's trying to do. I think his objectives are actually quite morally appropriate and sound."

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/westworld-ed-harris-man-blacks-season-2-storyline-1111951
    JaimieTElisa
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    The lesson of the James Delos project is, whether we are host or human, like sands through the hourglass, so...are the days...of our lives.


  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    edited May 2018
    Should they have extended the James Delos story to the end of the season? Only if they had Lennie James playing the lab tech and every time William comes out, he Morgalizes about whether humans have the right to create controlled conscience beings.

    And William shoots him in the face every time. That would be a satisfying arc.

    #WeAintUs #TheyAintThem
    manhattnikGiovanni
  • Should they have extended the James Delos story to the end of the season? Only if they had Lennie James playing the lab tech and every time William comes out, he Morgalizes about whether humans have the right to create controlled conscience beings.

    And William shoots him in the face every time. That would be a satisfying arc.

    #WeAintUs #TheyAintThem
    Maeve, Lee, and Hector stumble onto a section of the park that is supposed to look like DC, but actually looks more like Georgia. They find a sheriff host with a ridiculous southern accent stuck in a loop about zombies. Lee explains it was an early prototype that’s been running for 20 years. Started out strong, but Delos refused to pay the writers, and they lost 70% of their audience. The sheriff is the only original model left, and he keeps going on about “Coral,” they tried introducing new characters, tigers, and different groups of people, but guests just got sick of the same old themes. 
This discussion has been closed.