104 - "Not Fade Away"

Apologies, I barely made it home in time for the live watch tonight, I'm sorry the thread got delayed so much.  What did you all think?  
DancesWithWookies
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Comments

  • omg the writing!!! So horrible in some parts. I just don't get it.
  • For the first 45 minutes where NOTHING happened except for Nick being a worthless piece of shit and Maddie being a total fuckwit by cutting the fence (and oh yes, I'm sure she was able to elude the military carrying around a pair of bolt cutters walking near the fence...) we were wondering just what the hell was supposed to be going on. 

    For the last 10 minutes we all knew something was amiss with "helpful doctor lady" and pretty much figured out that the military was rounding up potentially infected victims and then shot the whoever was left in the house on the hill that was identified by Carl...er, uh...Chris. Maybe if the writers were able to create characters I can give a shit about I'd care but it's Johnny Depp Kramer Doppleganger they'er carrying off to kill and I'm like: good, fuck him. 

    The slow burn that is Fear Something Happening is exhausting and uninteresting and I'm officially OUT. I know how this all ends and watching these fucktards bumble around like androids with faulty AI programming is just not entertaining to me. 

    Nobody in that neighborhood has a battery powered or crank powered radio or functional car radio to try and listen to some news? Travis jogging around like all's well and what's her name taking off at the end to act like a nurse without saying goodbye to her son (and NO that lipsync "I love you" doesn't count). 

    And the depiction of the military as assholes is a bit too heavy handed for me. 

    I hope they take Johnny Depp Kramer Doppleganger out back and blow his fucking head off. And change his clothes before they burn his corpse.  
    kingbee67
  • it seems like this show is overall ok, sprinkled with bad dialogue, characters acting stupid, and an occasional good moment... sigh... you guys hit the nail on the head TWD 2.0.  Also i live in Los Angeles and as for the townsfolk acting like bitchy assholes, yup pretty much sums up your average "Angelino", and I wouldn't mind if all these "main" characters get killed off and we start off with a fresh batch of survivors next season. #KillOffAllOfTheClarks
  • billyh70billyh70 Paducah, KY

    Would it kill them to make at least one character in this family likable?  My favorite part of this whole episode was the buttstroke-to-the-head series on Nick.  I didn't care for him before but to see him stealing the pain meds from the old man in the hospital bed tonight was horrible.  Nobody seemed to mind that while the world as they knew it was collapsing Nick just floats in the pool working on his tan?  And how do you spend that much time in the pool and still look like you haven't bathed in over a week?

    How did Travis become "The Mayor"?  Where was Madison hiding those bolt cutters all the way to the fence?

    I like the idea of the last commenter about killing them all and starting fresh next season.  Maybe make this an anthology type show?  Next season could look at a family in the Midwest or Northeast.  No way this group can maintain viewers for another season.

  • 1. Not one Zombie
    2. Self-Tattooing 
    3. Happy Gilmore Golfing
    4. Everyone is dead in 9 days? 
    5. Were are all the zombies? In a city with 13 million people?
  • Don't worry nothing happened in that nine days but games of monopoly. The army guy is really a nice guy but got burned on Boardwalk by nik and is taking his revenge.

    Seriously I don't if I can watch anymore of this.
  • LukeLuke Central Illinois
    Let's face it this is AMC making another walking dead season 2 and using the popularity of the name to make a quick buck.

    Thier house might as well be on the moon. This isn't Walking Dead in LA. This is Hershal's farm 2.0.

    What I hate the most is that clearly they used the whole 9 day skip to save a bunch of budget on how they cleared out the zombies and built the fence. But then pretend like "oh well these people still think civilization might come back and are asking when the phones will be back on"

    Give me a break eveyone in the show accepts as fact that literally eveyone in 6 mIles of them is dead and that LA is literally filled with zombies and they wonder when the phones are coming back?

    This reeks of some producer making changes to the original vision of this show, because I feel like we are watching two shows. One where somehow simultaneously we aren't supposed to know what is happening out of the fence and yet one where the show makes sure to tell us that every thing out there is dead so we don't wonder where all the people and zombies are.

    Even the preview of next week showed the hospital facility and it looks like a warehouse backlot. I don't know if I can do a season 2 of this if this suburb is the actual permanent location of this show for several seasons.
    steph_bhypergenesbdaisyankh
  • Frakkin TFrakkin T Currently Offline
    Question: Is there any American alive who would be as un-skeptical of a military occupation of their neighborhood than Travis? Seriously, he's never seen The Siege or Battlestar Galactica season 3? 

    I did a little research (meaning I looked it up on Google Maps.) Army guy said they were in 1 of 12 camps south of the San Gabriels. Basically LA is surrounded by the ocean to the south and west and the San Gabriel mountains to the north. Back of the envelope calculations say it's an area of maybe 5000 sq miles including everything east of LA that is still south of the mountains. If there are 12 camps no bigger than a day's walk wide, that's a lot of dead space. The only way that much space is going to be cleared in 9 days is if the Army is slaughtering walkers and people wholesale or they are lying about it being all dead people. Maybe a combination of  both.

    They're kinda telegraphing how this is gonna play out, or else just using a paint-by numbers plot. Of course the camp is gonna get overrun, probably as soon as people at the army hospital start dying. Shit will get hectic and our group of survivors will storm the hospital to rescue their people. Travis's ex-wife will sacrifice herself as penance for her betrayal and the season ends with the caravan driving off into the sunset. The only wildcard is the only really interesting character on the show: Madison. If they write her properly, the actress is more than capable of playing Daryl Dixon-level badass. 



    steph_bTaraC73duncanpowersAmbitiousBukky
  • Not gonna beat a dead horse so I'll tell us what I like. Completely different show. Feels more like Jericho than TWD. I don't mind that. But this really is starting to concern me on the budget. Every episode we get closer to the finale im starting to worry they are just cash cowing this show. Make it on the super cheap count the cash. It's already sad we didn't get to see any real city mayhem. We better get something good with the army vs zombies.
  • ArctorArctor The Netherlands
    I feel like what would make this a little more realistic and relateable would be if some of these characters had a sense of humor. Humor is a coping mechanism and even Dan Carlin talked about soldiers in WWI joking and having gallow's humor. It's like the show is afraid that having one light moment of a character laughing or making an inappropriate joke would ruin everything.
  • AjasAjas Seattle, WA
    edited September 2015
    When it comes to TWD, my tears have been swept away and there will be no more bitching about inconsistent characters, ill communication, or illogical decisions.  My former mindset is passed away.

    Seriously, there are so many cool things happening that even if they have Padme-esque acting by the gov't doctor woman, or a flashy light that can ONLY be seen from the Clark family rooftop (til Trav rats em out), or whether a Dog IS Nature according to Trav's english lecture, then gets eaten, and is now back to being Nature in the Ep 4 intro monologue.... like I said, my tears are swept away.  Because I am totally infected by this show.

    Just quickly-- we completely get a GRRM 3-step reveal all in the same episode!  First, on: the fence at the golfing tee there's "REV 21:4" woven into the fence... Then when Mad-Dog goes exploring outside the fence, you see the passage actually inscribed into the wall.  Then, to conclude the episode, the suicide note pretty much spells it out.

    And BTW how cool was it that the suicide note concluded with "I wish you were here, and I will see you soon, and you will hold me".. Cuz that's exactly what happened when her brain got exploded.  I love that kind of stuff.

    RaiyneAshleyOcean
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    edited September 2015
    Also disappointing is that in seasons 1 and 2 of TWD they discuss broadcasts of walkers eating and killing people. In particular a scene with Dale and Herschel. I understand different power grids and different circumstances may mean LA doesn't get that but I find it quite hard to believe this entire neighbourhood hasn't been able to see what's going on. They are really missing an opportunity here to show some "holy shit is this really happening?" Moments. Not sure what's more interesting to witness during the fall of civilisation so far.Watching Rick in a coma or Nick get high under a bed...
    AManIsNoOneAmbitiousBukky
  • It was eye-rolling that Travis believed that no one possibly exists on the hill given that they lived among millions of people just over a week ago. The main characters seem disconnected from the reality of the show. I would expect more serious discussions and despair from people who supposedly believe that there are only 12 enclaves left in the city/area. Landlines would not be among my primary concerns if a population the size of some states disappeared.

    Compounding this is that millions or hundreds of thousands of people turned in that area but we have seen very few zombies and apparently none this week. I think the gates should already be surrounded by walkers. 

    Also, I find it hard to believe that there are so few people left in the city. Everyone wouldn't have means to flee and many wouldn't want to for various reasons. I'm thinking that it would take only one big pile up on the major outbound highways to prevent many evacuees from escaping on wheels. I'm not familiar with the roadways there though.

    I fear that the above issues have more to do with cost cutting than anything else.

    Alicia's poor clothing choices are present again this week. If I was the parent of even a modestly attractive young woman during a societal collapse under the rule of arrogant men with guns, I would dress her in the baggiest clothes possible and make sure she doesn't shower for a week. Yes, she is supposed to be eye candy, but the amount of fan service seems to be an odd fit for this type of show. It's weird that some TWD fans thought that shipping Doodlebug and Darryl was gross, but seemingly accept the objectification of a high school senior.

    I think the actor who plays Daniel had the best performance this week. I didn't expect Madison to bitch slap her son, but it was warranted and satisfying lol. As mentioned in the mini-cast, the show has huge opportunities to be great, but it can't get over the hump more often than not.  
    S. SmithAManIsNoOneRaiyneAshleyOceanAmbitiousBukky
  • Hatorian said:

    Not gonna beat a dead horse so I'll tell us what I like. Completely different show. Feels more like Jericho than TWD. I don't mind that. But this really is starting to concern me on the budget. Every episode we get closer to the finale im starting to worry they are just cash cowing this show. Make it on the super cheap count the cash. It's already sad we didn't get to see any real city mayhem. We better get something good with the army vs zombies.

    beat me to it - this is an 'inside the walls' drama
  • k, i'm going to buck the trend here. this was my favorite episode so far. As a Katina survivor, i feel this episode was 2nd to BSG in showing how people deal differently with communal trauma. I evacuated but i know plenty of people who stayed in the Quarter and had a very complicated relationship with the military. Some individual soldiers helped with information and so on, but "officially" everything was hush hush.

    I came back when they opened the borders again, and honestly most everyone was like Travis (he had easily been my least favorite character until last episode). People just wanted to get on with rebuilding, so everyone was "no, everything is great - no problems at all - you need help with that - meet you at the free bottled water truck tomorrow"

    just remember that these people are victims of trauma (and people who weren't "whole" before the disaster anyway- there really is no predicting how someone is going to respond to trauma - you may think you know, but you don't
    ArctorduncanpowersAManIsNoOneDeeAmbitiousBukky
  • One thing this show gets right is the manipulative nature of junkies. I am super impressed with how realistic his lies and manipulations are. It is definitely one of the more accurate portrayals of the behaviors characteristic of addicts that I have ever seen in either movies or tv. 
    roscoeduncanpowershypergenesbAManIsNoOnetom_gksa1001
  • Like many others I have found a lot of problems with FTWD, its almost difficult to know where to begin. So I'll begin with what i think is the biggest problem of this show, that being the question of how did this virus/zombie infection start. When i first heard that Kirkman had no interest in exploring how the zombie virus originated, I thought ok fair enough we don't really need to know, and i stand by that i don't think as viewers we do need to know. However i do believe that the people who make the show need to know or at least understand how this virus spread to some extent.

    If they don't know how it spread or was created how can they possibly recreate how society would collapse. They would need to know a general outline of how the collapse happens so they can show and replicate that in the show to an extent. Even more so when the main focus of the show is supposed to be on the fall of society and how things broke down. I feel the effects of this will always be present in this show, and will be highlighted every time they try to explain how things fell apart. As the truth is they don't really know or care how society fell apart, its almost as if they don't understand the universe they have created or how it would work. So when they skip 9 days when the army arrive is this because they didn't find this interesting (which surely it would be) or is it because they really don't know how to write or explain things beyond shits going down, society has collapsed.

    Ah but its all about the characters they say. Well if that was the case why skip 9 days of crucial development, not only in terms of the FTWD world but in terms of character development. It appeared Daniel and Maddison have built up a good relationship, it would of been nice to have seen this develop, like it would of been nice to see why Travis ended up as Major. Instead we get a time jump and are introduced to some cliche army types. I'm starting to think the whole time jump is purely because these guys are incapable of writing real dialogue and characters, so instead they just jumped to the payoff as usual.

    Maybe its just me, maybe i expected something different, But i feel this is pretty much following the same tracks that TWD is, and brings with it the same problems. Like many I was drawn into the Darabont vision of TWD and when the original show warped and changed i accepted it for what it was. However I'm unsure if I want to be doing the same thing with FTWD. I've not even got into a lot of character problems, I feel making Nik a heroin addict is a huge mistake. It almost reminds of the Caroll/Lizzie storyline, in the sense i feel they are trying to approach a serious complex issue without fully understanding it or making it appear convincing on screen. I also cant shake the feeling that they are going to have Nik do a complete turn and in season 2 he will be the leader after coming of heroin, of course this will all happen in a time jump to save them actually having to turn a character around themselves. last thing, I do think it would be interesting to somehow mirror Niks internal chaos with the chaos of the world theyre now in. So to have Nik prosper in the world purely because hes used to the chaos unlike other characters. Anyway im rambling now, Ill probably finish the season see how it pans out, but i don't know how much more i can take.
    BuffsterBduncanpowersAmbitiousBukky
  • Okay-  so maybe its because my expectations are super low because there is no Darabont magic pixie dust on this one, but still, I just don’t think it was that bad.  There are problems but I’m gonna play devil’s advocate. 

    I loved the beginning with Nick.  My husband and I looked at each other and simultaneously  said Ha!  He found a way to cop! 

    I do think a lot of the military is about right. I thought the golfing thing was over the top, but I could see the military guys starting to act this way because its been nine days of “when will the internet be back?”, “can I go look for my brother/cousin/niece/ parents/boss/best friend, lady I always saw at the gym?” “what about my dry cleaning?”  “how come they aren’t sending any fresh organic kale with the rations?” Blah Blah Blah…

    I have always thought any kind of quarantine situation in the States would be a nightmare that would never work.  We Americans are amazing, wonderful people, but we are also fiercely “no one’s the boss of me” adolescents in some ways.  And I don’t think it’s a function of being in LA-I think most people would be a big pain in the ass to try and keep contained.  In some places it would be “where’s my kale?” and in some areas it would be “nobody tells me to put my gun down”, but basically in my opinion it wouldn’t take long for the military to get seriously frustrated with us civilian types.

    And the beginning of the outbreak would make it even worse.  This isn’t months and months in and Andrea showing up with the Gov and being like “I don’t care how creepy this place is, I dig those walls and I want a goddamn shower”.  This is nine days in-which would make people even more first world problem oriented and less grateful cause they haven’t seen how bad it is or how bad its gonna get.

    I think there are some other pretty interesting things maybe going on.

    Barbershop comes from a place of completely understanding horrible governments that “disappear” people, which could be nicely juxtaposed with Travis and his wacked out denial coping mechanism.  I hope they do something with this.  Daniel is a great character and anyone who even made it out of El Salvador in that time period is chock full of survival skills if not just a full on bad ass.

    This is super silly, but what was in Madison’s cup at the end?  She said in one episode that addiction runs in the family.  Maybe she is a recovering alcoholic (I come from the camp of its all the same) and she’s having a little garage  relapse nip?  

    And finally-  I really like the Nick character.  I think they are writing him fairly well.  Many addicts are simultaneously awesome, sensitive, lovely people (concern for the old guy, crying in the bathroom)and horrible degenerate self centered shit heads (where’s my morphine?).  

    I'm still in...


     

    ArctorduncanpowersAManIsNoOneAmbitiousBukkyAntManBee
  •  I would expect more serious discussions and despair from people who supposedly believe that there are only 12 enclaves left in the city/area. Landlines would not be among my primary concerns if a population the size of some states disappeared.


    Compounding this is that millions or hundreds of thousands of people turned in that area but we have seen very few zombies and apparently none this week. I think the gates should already be surrounded by walkers.  
    I'm not sure I agree with your assumptions. There are 12 safe zones, but they said the rest of the areas were evacuated. I think for the last 9 days the army has been sweeping the neighborhoods, killing infected, and evacuating survivors; essentially they've been doing exactly what they did at the end of episode 3. In this episode, they said they had cleared a six mile radius around the safe zone. I think that we'll see the army try to move in to clear out downtown, and they'll be met by a horde of hundreds of thousands of zombies. Right now downtown is essentially untouched by the army and that's the densest population. 

    I too would be upset if it turns out that almost everyone is dead already. That's just not the impression I got from what I saw. I think in The Walking Dead they said it took around 30 days for everything to fail, that's still another three weeks. 
  • Every single one of the soldiers in this episode gave off a very serious rapist vibe...like I kept waiting for a scene where Alicia or Ophelia get cornered by one of the soldiers and put into that kind of situation where they get forced into doing something as a matter of fact I felt like they even set that possibility up multiple times during the ep. Thankfully they didn't go there this episode but it was kind of implied these soldiers were super horny based on that one scene at the beginning where the soldier guy had the clipboard in his hand and was flirting with the those two girls. 
    BuffsterB
  • S. Smith said:

    Barbershop comes from a place of completely understanding horrible governments that “disappear” people, which could be nicely juxtaposed with Travis and his wacked out denial coping mechanism.  I hope they do something with this.

    It seemed to me that in the final scene Travis realized that the flashes coming from the building on the hill were muzzle flashes. Presumably that building is the "hospital" where people are being taken for "treatment". This would make sense given Barbershop's dialogue about the bodies in the river.
    steph_bDee
  • I think potentially Liza's decision to go to the hospital was really interesting. Because I think we are supposed to see it as a gift to Maddie, a bit of mother solidarity... She is going to keep an eye on Nick. If that's what I was supposed to get out of the meaningful glance, it's cool. But why on earth couldn't she run over and say: "I'm going to look after your son, please look over mind."? Oh yeah, because people on this show never talk about anything!
    steph_bAmbitiousBukky
  • tristan said:

    I'll begin with what i think is the biggest problem of this show, that being the question of how did this virus/zombie infection start. When i first heard that Kirkman had no interest in exploring how the zombie virus originated, I thought ok fair enough we don't really need to know, and i stand by that i don't think as viewers we do need to know. However i do believe that the people who make the show need to know or at least understand how this virus spread to some extent.

    If they don't know how it spread or was created how can they possibly recreate how society would collapse. They would need to know a general outline of how the collapse happens so they can show and replicate that in the show to an extent. Even more so when the main focus of the show is supposed to be on the fall of society and how things broke down. I feel the effects of this will always be present in this show, and will be highlighted every time they try to explain how things fell apart. As the truth is they don't really know or care how society fell apart, its almost as if they don't understand the universe they have created or how it would work. So when they skip 9 days when the army arrive is this because they didn't find this interesting (which surely it would be) or is it because they really don't know how to write or explain things beyond shits going down, society has collapsed.

    Ah but its all about the characters they say. Well if that was the case why skip 9 days of crucial development, not only in terms of the FTWD world but in terms of character development. It appeared Daniel and Maddison have built up a good relationship, it would of been nice to have seen this develop, like it would of been nice to see why Travis ended up as Major. Instead we get a time jump and are introduced to some cliche army types. I'm starting to think the whole time jump is purely because these guys are incapable of writing real dialogue and characters, so instead they just jumped to the payoff as usual.

    I agree with all of the above. Adding to that, the biggest problem this spin off had going in is that you have a very limited time to work with, if it's goinng to be different than the existing show. The whole point is that it's going to show the collapse ... But how many seasons, even episodes can you get from that? The fact that they they are supposedly working with such a limited canvas and yet have decided to skip 9 days.... Unbelievable.

  • @EMAW42 According wikipedia, there are only over 50,000 residents in the downtown L.A. area. I've never been there, but this number sounds consistent with the general makeup of most downtowns. The city of Los Angeles apparently has a population just shy of 4 million. There are millions more in the greater area. I don't think it feasible to move the number of people elsewhere in 9 days. Even if it can be done, where would they be moved to since we are sure that the virus spread across the country? Unless the remaining safe zones contain magnitudes more people than there are in our heroes' zone, I have to call shenanigans until further notice.
  • I think they are "moving them" via a bullet to the brain. 
  • @steph_b Very likely. I would expect the sound and sight of heavy armaments if the armed forces are exterminating millions of undead. Who knows what happened in those nine days though. 
    steph_b
  • My prediction for the next two episodes:

    Nick and Liza reach the "hospital" and see the bodies of Doug and Hector with bullet holes in their heads. Griselda is executed by the soldiers. Liza is killed helping Nick escape.

    Travis and family escape the safe zone with the help of the soldier Ofelia was seducing. Probably Daniel dies in the escape.

    Travis and family meet up with Nick. Undead Liza appears and Madison has to put her down. This is the start of Madison's transition to Ricktator.

    The last scene is everyone driving into the desert.
    steph_bduncanpowersAmbitiousBukky
  • ArctorArctor The Netherlands
    @firewalker601 Sound doesn't carry that far, specially if the wind is the other way. Every once in a while you can hear helicopters overhead though during quiet scenes, the sound design in this show is pretty amazing with lots of subtle details. And I'm sure they'd roll in the tank platoons over fields and more major roads, not through the enclaves.
  • kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.
    edited September 2015

    I wonder if they got the whole military thing wrong. The show paints them as goons and clowns who don't seem to give much of a shit about the people they are protecting. I can see that in Iraq or Afghanistan, but this is there home too with there families in it. I think there attitude would be different.

    Also @Firewalker601 I Don't think the people who make this show now anything about L.A. There safe zone is in East L.A. that is almost all very old low income housing and mostly Spanish speaking. Maybe they could have moved the the safe zone to Pasadena or to the suburbs I don't know. That family seems to white to be living there if they teach at the local school I would think they would have better understanding of the barber shop family. .

    Also the part @frakken T pointed out is the city is one big part of the whole SO. Cal. It bleeds in to other cities and Orange County and San Bernardino County it doesn't stop till it hits the marine base Camp Pendleton near San Diego County and then it hits desert to the east and north. So to contain the area would  be a huge project. more than a week.

  • @EMAW42 According wikipedia, there are only over 50,000 residents in the downtown L.A. area. I've never been there, but this number sounds consistent with the general makeup of most downtowns. The city of Los Angeles apparently has a population just shy of 4 million. There are millions more in the greater area. I don't think it feasible to move the number of people elsewhere in 9 days. Even if it can be done, where would they be moved to since we are sure that the virus spread across the country? Unless the remaining safe zones contain magnitudes more people than there are in our heroes' zone, I have to call shenanigans until further notice.

    I don't think they have evacuated all 4 million. They said they cleared a six mile radius, so most of the city is likely not cleared. I think what they haven't cleared is getting more infested every day it takes to get there.
This discussion has been closed.