802 - “A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms”

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  • Not sure if this was mentioned, but did anyone else notice how small Ghost was? Clearly the show was trying to save CGI money by giving us a cheap, small Ghost.
    MurderbearTravisElisa
  • ken hale said:
    "Dead are already here" statement by Dany?   I believe the night king will raise the dead in the crypts... an attack from inside Winterfeld.  They seem to be setting this up.... sending everyone to the crypts to be safe, Dany saying "the dead are already here", 
    Come on! Do people really believe that after 8 seasons of this show lionizing the people in that crypt that it will culminate in a bunch of Harryhausen skellingtons hacking up babies?
    Yes.. yes I do 
    CeciliaM
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    Not sure if this was mentioned, but did anyone else notice how small Ghost was? Clearly the show was trying to save CGI money by giving us a cheap, small Ghost.
    I think the CGI thing is somewhat bogus. It doesnt cost them that much to stretch out and touch up the image of a dog on the screen to make it look bigger with red eyes. ESPECIALLY if Ghost is just sitting still and not being interacted with. I've seen deleted scenes where Ghost is involved and the post production CGI touch ups were never done. It looks real bad, but the cost for that isnt prohibitive. Its nothing like the SFX behind giants, dragons, or a dozen other things they do on the show regularly 

    From what I've read and heard, they really don't like how the direwolves look on screen. And the explanation I've read on that is that since direwolves are just big wolves/dogs that people have seen everywhere in real life, it's harder to trick our brains into thinking that a giant version of them looks natural. As opposed to dragons which are completely made up fantasy creatures, so as long as the texture and polygons look good, they look good to us (unless a real person is on their back).


    Here is a Ghost deleted scene from S6.

    gguenotTravisElisatelephoneofmadnessken hale
  • Teresa from ConcordTeresa from Concord Concord, California
    Looks natural to me. Direwolf larger than life!
    Elisa
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    Not sure if this was mentioned, but did anyone else notice how small Ghost was? Clearly the show was trying to save CGI money by giving us a cheap, small Ghost.
    Yeah, I know Ghost is supposed to be the runt of the litter but that seriously just looked like he was the size of a biggish dog. It's been like 13 seasons since Ghost was around though so they probably forgot what he looks like.
    budesignstelephoneofmadnessElisaCapeGabe
  • I thought Ghost looked smaller too at first, but after looking at it again and again it seems like he's almost at Edd's shoulders, so I'm ok with it. 
  • Arya is definitely at least 18; HBO wanted everyone to know that through that tweet they put out.

    It occurred to me today that the Arya/Gendry scene might very well be the least complicated sex scene that ever appeared on GoT. 
    1. Both of age
    2. They care for each other, and there is some trust and some history there
    3. Both consenting and willing participants
    4. it's clear what the needs/rules are, but it's not a complicated relationship nor one with strings
    5. only mild political implications really (she's more highborn than him, but she's pretty much wiped that out through life experience)
    6. Not a lot of gratuitous nudity
    7. Pretty vanilla hetero sex
    8. Gendry is older, but he wasn't that experienced
    Also, not to make everyone start keening again, but maybe you really DON'T get to have your own upset and hurt feelings about a young woman and her first sexual experience, that she chose through her own agency, and enjoyed on her own terms. And maybe talking about your feelings in this way, and overstating what other people's opinions are in terms of an attack on yourselves, is overreacting. Maybe you should think about what Arya (the character, not the actress) was thinking about in that scene, which IMO was a very astute "I might die tomorrow, I don't want to die a virgin, this dude is sexy and I like and trust him, and this is probably a safe situation to have sex for the first time" with a dash of Arya brusqueness (take off your pants, tell me the truth about how many women, etc).

    I was talking about this with my husband today and realized I actually thought the sex scene was borderline boring until I started reading everyone's hot takes on the internet about it. I thought the idea behind it (as stated in my previous paragraph) was cool, and I liked how the leadup was written and Arya's approach, but the sex part really wasn't that sexy IMO. 

    Answer me this- Do people Arya's age (generally just post-high school age) not care about sex any more? Has sex become something so scary that a vanilla encounter with a small dash of sass makes everyone freak out? Because when I was that age, both guys and girls probably spent about 65% of our time talking or thinking about sex. But I was coming of age in the early 90s (I'm 46 so think like...grunge era). I just feel like everyone is so afraid of sex and coming of age right now. It's ironic because it seems an important part of coming of age right now is labeling your sexuality, but it seems like people are actually kind of afraid of the actual "having sex" part. 

    I mean, all these folks are saying "she is like our younger sister" I don't know if you are all guys, or what? But as the oldest of three sisters, the thought of my younger sisters having sex was not scary to me; it was a normal part of growing up. It's probably the least thing I worried about for them. I think the #1 thing I worried about for them was student loans. LOL But seriously, even in their dating lives, I would worry way more about someone emotionally abusing them, wasting their time, wasting their money or some other thing, than them having sex for the first time. If I did think of Arya as a little sister, I would have been thinking ... "get it, little sister" haha.
    gguenotLordBybudesignsSanguinePenguinElisathepastryarchy






  • Love this. I’m reading it in Dennis’ voice. 
    LordByTravis
  • CeciliaM said:
    Arya is definitely at least 18; HBO wanted everyone to know that through that tweet they put out.

    It occurred to me today that the Arya/Gendry scene might very well be the least complicated sex scene that ever appeared on GoT. 
    1. Both of age
    2. They care for each other, and there is some trust and some history there
    3. Both consenting and willing participants
    4. it's clear what the needs/rules are, but it's not a complicated relationship nor one with strings
    5. only mild political implications really (she's more highborn than him, but she's pretty much wiped that out through life experience)
    6. Not a lot of gratuitous nudity
    7. Pretty vanilla hetero sex
    8. Gendry is older, but he wasn't that experienced
    I mean, all these folks are saying "she is like our younger sister" I don't know if you are all guys, or what? But as the oldest of three sisters, the thought of my younger sisters having sex was not scary to me; it was a normal part of growing up. It's probably the least thing I worried about for them. I think the #1 thing I worried about for them was student loans. LOL But seriously, even in their dating lives, I would worry way more about someone emotionally abusing them, wasting their time, wasting their money or some other thing, than them having sex for the first time. If I did think of Arya as a little sister, I would have been thinking ... "get it, little sister" haha.
    I made a “little sister” statement in understanding for some folks’ initial discomfort with the scene and I’m definitely a guy and I have a little sister who is over 30 and single. I’m also thinking “get it, little sister” when we have occasion to talk about her love life, but I understand the weirdness with thinking about my kid-sister making the beast with two backs. It was a transition, at least for me, between thinking about someone you’ve known as a child to thinking about them as an adult. Once you’re there, you definitely want your loved-ones to be getting some action (on their terms).

    I think for some folks this episode was that weird transition period, all at once, where they had to make the leap from tween-Arya to adult-Arya suddenly and so it triggered that reflexive protection instinct regarding a young teen being taken advantage of by an adult.

    I’m a total cheerleader for thirsty-Arya with the sweaty-blacksmith in this situation.
    CeciliaM
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    Phew. At least we know Sam is safe... 
    budesignsgguenotSanguinePenguinLordBytelephoneofmadnessTravisSchluppElisaken halePeggyB
  • TravisTravis CA
    edited April 2019
    CeciliaM said:

    Also, not to make everyone start keening again, but maybe you really DON'T get to have your own upset and hurt feelings about a young woman and her first sexual experience, that she chose through her own agency, and enjoyed on her own terms. 
    Here's my perspective (which also tries to get back into my previous, more gut level mindset because I think it's more useful to the conversation), and know that as I have written I have done A TON of soul searching and a stupid and unhealthy amount of thinking about my feelings on this topic. Unfortunately, when I am faced with a contra perspective that is held by people who I respect my brain becomes a pretty harsh echo chamber. So please know that my thoughts have evolved a lot and yada yada, disclaimer, disclaimer, yada yada...

    Here's the thing that complicates that (fair or unfair, overly meta or whatever). In essence, as much as we do buy into the show and see Arya as her own person, in moments like these many of us are reminded that she is actually a construct of a writer's room who are making her choices. In that moment I saw the writers "paying off" her character by having her character, in a moment that we were meant to celebrate as an audience, a girl who it would be easy to believe is a young teenager (I get it now, but her age has always been very ambiguous, she looks very young and I honestly had no clue how old she was supposed to be), seducing a much older man. That was a happening that the show toned incredibly positively. I've said it exhaustively, and I have come around to greater understanding on the matter, but in the moment and until talking it out further and coming to greater context this was very awkward and tough. This is also why I completely reject the analogy that Natter Cast put forward yesterday (with such smug delight). The purchasing and subsequent rape of Dany was not toned as a good thing. You were meant to, and I imagine we all did, feel fearful and sad for Dany, and recognize that she was being put in this horrific situation. I get your point, and I think it is well reasoned, but feelings are complicated and I think it isn't so cut and dry, because there is this weird line in shows and how they hit people where they are both things that you buy into and try to see actual people in play, but you also see people pulling strings and making choices and perhaps most importantly, setting tones. 

    Also, as someone else brought up, maybe I'm not the representative that people are targeting their ire towards. I never for a moment thought of "rage quitting" the show or was so outraged that they "how could do such a thing," and I've been willing to do some soul searching on the matter. It was just something that hit me wrong and I didn't like the choice, and it confused me a lot that people were so excited to have it happen because it did feel wrong to me on a gut level in the moment because of their distinctive age discrepancy with Arya's age as a starting point. To your last point, I don't have a kid sister, but if I did I don't think I would be scared or upset at the notion of her becoming sexually active, but if she started having sex with a 30 year old dude at 18 I wouldn't be psyched about it. It wouldn't be my life or my choice and I imagine I'm sure I would respect her enough to let her live the life she wanted, but it would be something that would concern me greatly, and I don't believe that would be such an uncommon reaction.

    Anyways, we do have a right to take things in and feel about them what we do because there is this weird line between the character and the author who controls them, and in a way because this was such a "vanilla encounter" is actually as much a complicating factor as anything else. In a way, it was a great deal of what made it so confusing. Because, just like we feel emboldened to have an opinion on how they ended LOST, we feel like we can criticize the choices that writers make for characters and the tone that they do it with. You see my point? 
    CeciliaMBloodyTaco
  • TravisTravis CA
    edited April 2019

    Oh my God! That is AMAZING!

    I now find myself really bummed that I don't have any awesome new thoughts about other aspects of the episode because I loved it and I feel like I'm occupying this one tiny corner of negativity, but I just don't have anything productive to say that hasn't already been covered. Just to plant a new flag (well worn as it was). Man, that Brienne knighting scene really, really moved me and was so beautiful to watch, and it was perfectly crafted to pull literally years of her journey together. It was perfect. I literally cheered. I mean literally clapped and exclaimed "Yay!"  I also am so beyond pleased to see Jaime in the north with "the good guys." The whole thing just felt so right as a celebration of these amazing characters leading into what I'm sure will be a giant heart break on Sunday.
    awookieeLordBySanguinePenguin
  • It got suddenly smoky in my basement a couple of time during this episode, but especially when knighting occurred.
    SanguinePenguinTravisCeciliaM
  • TravisTravis CA
    edited April 2019
    LordBy said:
    It got suddenly smoky in my basement a couple of time during this episode, but especially when knighting occurred.
    Must have been some HBO trickery. Totally happened in my house too. Arguably, HBO is crossing some serious privacy lines (not to mention safety, I mean where does all of this smoke come from?) to enhance their show experience.
    LordBy
  • I blame GRRM. It’s a Song of Ice and Fire, and where there is fire there seems to be occasional heavy smoke.
    TravisSanguinePenguin
  • Yeah I'll just say one more thing about the Arya thing... It's hard to read tone on the internet. So I just wanted to declare my tone as "mostly chill with a dash of -let's have perspective" rather than angry or full of ire or anything like that.

    Travis
  • TravisTravis CA
    edited April 2019
    CeciliaM said:
    Yeah I'll just say one more thing about the Arya thing... It's hard to read tone on the internet. So I just wanted to declare my tone as "mostly chill with a dash of -let's have perspective" rather than angry or full of ire or anything like that.

    FWiW, mine is meant to sound pleasant toned. Rational, respectful exchange of ideas type intention on my part too. I hope that translated, but I can never be sure. I hear it in my head one way and it feels right, but I just re-read it and I could see a different tone being "heard." You just never know how it will be read.
    CeciliaM
  • CeciliaM said:
    Arya is definitely at least 18; HBO wanted everyone to know that through that tweet they put out.

    It occurred to me today that the Arya/Gendry scene might very well be the least complicated sex scene that ever appeared on GoT. 
    1. Both of age
    2. They care for each other, and there is some trust and some history there
    3. Both consenting and willing participants
    4. it's clear what the needs/rules are, but it's not a complicated relationship nor one with strings
    5. only mild political implications really (she's more highborn than him, but she's pretty much wiped that out through life experience)
    6. Not a lot of gratuitous nudity
    7. Pretty vanilla hetero sex
    8. Gendry is older, but he wasn't that experienced
    Also, not to make everyone start keening again, but maybe you really DON'T get to have your own upset and hurt feelings about a young woman and her first sexual experience, that she chose through her own agency, and enjoyed on her own terms. And maybe talking about your feelings in this way, and overstating what other people's opinions are in terms of an attack on yourselves, is overreacting. Maybe you should think about what Arya (the character, not the actress) was thinking about in that scene, which IMO was a very astute "I might die tomorrow, I don't want to die a virgin, this dude is sexy and I like and trust him, and this is probably a safe situation to have sex for the first time" with a dash of Arya brusqueness (take off your pants, tell me the truth about how many women, etc).

    I was talking about this with my husband today and realized I actually thought the sex scene was borderline boring until I started reading everyone's hot takes on the internet about it. I thought the idea behind it (as stated in my previous paragraph) was cool, and I liked how the leadup was written and Arya's approach, but the sex part really wasn't that sexy IMO. 

    Answer me this- Do people Arya's age (generally just post-high school age) not care about sex any more? Has sex become something so scary that a vanilla encounter with a small dash of sass makes everyone freak out? Because when I was that age, both guys and girls probably spent about 65% of our time talking or thinking about sex. But I was coming of age in the early 90s (I'm 46 so think like...grunge era). I just feel like everyone is so afraid of sex and coming of age right now. It's ironic because it seems an important part of coming of age right now is labeling your sexuality, but it seems like people are actually kind of afraid of the actual "having sex" part. 

    I mean, all these folks are saying "she is like our younger sister" I don't know if you are all guys, or what? But as the oldest of three sisters, the thought of my younger sisters having sex was not scary to me; it was a normal part of growing up. It's probably the least thing I worried about for them. I think the #1 thing I worried about for them was student loans. LOL But seriously, even in their dating lives, I would worry way more about someone emotionally abusing them, wasting their time, wasting their money or some other thing, than them having sex for the first time. If I did think of Arya as a little sister, I would have been thinking ... "get it, little sister" haha.
    Despite your wokeness I think you're missing the point that people have a right to feelings, and it's not unusual for emotions to not jive with logic
  • LordBy said:
    It got suddenly smoky in my basement a couple of time during this episode, but especially when knighting occurred.
    Briennes tearful smile was just beautiful
    CeciliaMMurderbearTravisSanguinePenguinPeggyB
  • CeciliaM said:
    Arya is definitely at least 18; HBO wanted everyone to know that through that tweet they put out.

    It occurred to me today that the Arya/Gendry scene might very well be the least complicated sex scene that ever appeared on GoT. 
    1. Both of age
    2. They care for each other, and there is some trust and some history there
    3. Both consenting and willing participants
    4. it's clear what the needs/rules are, but it's not a complicated relationship nor one with strings
    5. only mild political implications really (she's more highborn than him, but she's pretty much wiped that out through life experience)
    6. Not a lot of gratuitous nudity
    7. Pretty vanilla hetero sex
    8. Gendry is older, but he wasn't that experienced
    Also, not to make everyone start keening again, but maybe you really DON'T get to have your own upset and hurt feelings about a young woman and her first sexual experience, that she chose through her own agency, and enjoyed on her own terms. And maybe talking about your feelings in this way, and overstating what other people's opinions are in terms of an attack on yourselves, is overreacting. Maybe you should think about what Arya (the character, not the actress) was thinking about in that scene, which IMO was a very astute "I might die tomorrow, I don't want to die a virgin, this dude is sexy and I like and trust him, and this is probably a safe situation to have sex for the first time" with a dash of Arya brusqueness (take off your pants, tell me the truth about how many women, etc).

    I was talking about this with my husband today and realized I actually thought the sex scene was borderline boring until I started reading everyone's hot takes on the internet about it. I thought the idea behind it (as stated in my previous paragraph) was cool, and I liked how the leadup was written and Arya's approach, but the sex part really wasn't that sexy IMO. 

    Answer me this- Do people Arya's age (generally just post-high school age) not care about sex any more? Has sex become something so scary that a vanilla encounter with a small dash of sass makes everyone freak out? Because when I was that age, both guys and girls probably spent about 65% of our time talking or thinking about sex. But I was coming of age in the early 90s (I'm 46 so think like...grunge era). I just feel like everyone is so afraid of sex and coming of age right now. It's ironic because it seems an important part of coming of age right now is labeling your sexuality, but it seems like people are actually kind of afraid of the actual "having sex" part. 

    I mean, all these folks are saying "she is like our younger sister" I don't know if you are all guys, or what? But as the oldest of three sisters, the thought of my younger sisters having sex was not scary to me; it was a normal part of growing up. It's probably the least thing I worried about for them. I think the #1 thing I worried about for them was student loans. LOL But seriously, even in their dating lives, I would worry way more about someone emotionally abusing them, wasting their time, wasting their money or some other thing, than them having sex for the first time. If I did think of Arya as a little sister, I would have been thinking ... "get it, little sister" haha.
    Despite your wokeness I think you're missing the point that people have a right to feelings, and it's not unusual for emotions to not jive with logic
    I'm not tryiing to be woke, lol. I'm just an old lady with opinions. 
    TravisKate23
  • CeciliaM said:
    Arya is definitely at least 18; HBO wanted everyone to know that through that tweet they put out.

    It occurred to me today that the Arya/Gendry scene might very well be the least complicated sex scene that ever appeared on GoT. 
    1. Both of age
    2. They care for each other, and there is some trust and some history there
    3. Both consenting and willing participants
    4. it's clear what the needs/rules are, but it's not a complicated relationship nor one with strings
    5. only mild political implications really (she's more highborn than him, but she's pretty much wiped that out through life experience)
    6. Not a lot of gratuitous nudity
    7. Pretty vanilla hetero sex
    8. Gendry is older, but he wasn't that experienced
    Also, not to make everyone start keening again, but maybe you really DON'T get to have your own upset and hurt feelings about a young woman and her first sexual experience, that she chose through her own agency, and enjoyed on her own terms. And maybe talking about your feelings in this way, and overstating what other people's opinions are in terms of an attack on yourselves, is overreacting. Maybe you should think about what Arya (the character, not the actress) was thinking about in that scene, which IMO was a very astute "I might die tomorrow, I don't want to die a virgin, this dude is sexy and I like and trust him, and this is probably a safe situation to have sex for the first time" with a dash of Arya brusqueness (take off your pants, tell me the truth about how many women, etc).

    I was talking about this with my husband today and realized I actually thought the sex scene was borderline boring until I started reading everyone's hot takes on the internet about it. I thought the idea behind it (as stated in my previous paragraph) was cool, and I liked how the leadup was written and Arya's approach, but the sex part really wasn't that sexy IMO. 

    Answer me this- Do people Arya's age (generally just post-high school age) not care about sex any more? Has sex become something so scary that a vanilla encounter with a small dash of sass makes everyone freak out? Because when I was that age, both guys and girls probably spent about 65% of our time talking or thinking about sex. But I was coming of age in the early 90s (I'm 46 so think like...grunge era). I just feel like everyone is so afraid of sex and coming of age right now. It's ironic because it seems an important part of coming of age right now is labeling your sexuality, but it seems like people are actually kind of afraid of the actual "having sex" part. 

    I mean, all these folks are saying "she is like our younger sister" I don't know if you are all guys, or what? But as the oldest of three sisters, the thought of my younger sisters having sex was not scary to me; it was a normal part of growing up. It's probably the least thing I worried about for them. I think the #1 thing I worried about for them was student loans. LOL But seriously, even in their dating lives, I would worry way more about someone emotionally abusing them, wasting their time, wasting their money or some other thing, than them having sex for the first time. If I did think of Arya as a little sister, I would have been thinking ... "get it, little sister" haha.
    I'm in my 40s. I never had an issue with the idea of Arya (or Maise) having sex. I did have a slight (and very temporary) anxious reaction to the sight of Arya getting naked. It is mostly because I don't see as big a difference in her look between S1 and S8. Whereas Bran is like 2 feet taller and Rickon was unrecognizable. It is also partly because I viewed her relationship with Gendry as mostly brother/sister, so it caught me off guard. I will own it, and say I doubt I'd have had the same apprehension if it was Sansa...to me, Sophie does not have the same babyface Maise has. I think Sophie is only a year older.

    FWIW, It's consistent with real life. I've seen posed "sexy" photos of Maise before, and I've always thought she looked too young. I don't have the same reaction when I see glam photos of Sophie Turner.

    But again, it's personal preference. She did the scene. It was a good scene. She's an amazing actor. 
    Travis
  • I thought the nudity made sense in that she "took off her armor" figuratively and literally, as well as reminding everyone that she has become a woman, which you can't really see when she is fully dressed. She dresses so much like a boy, with her size it wouldn't be surprising to think of her on first impression as a teenage boy, and generally the character has played around with gender throughout the series when it suited her, and has been a little more gender-fluid than some of the other "tomboy" characters on the show (like Yara and Brienne). 
    rkcrawf
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    Something tells me that Bran is going to order the NK into a deep...and dreamless...slumber.
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    CeciliaM said:
    I'm just an old lady with opinions. 
    Just how old are you?  Are you wearing an amulet?  You recently left Canada; what's the real reason you left the North?


    Anyone want to offer her a toast, after taking the first drink?


    Anyone?
    Murderbear
  • lengmolengmo RTP, NC

    “...and we’ll put Bran in the crypt where it’s ‘safe.’”

    Bran: “Hell no!  Er, I mean, the Night King is coming for me, yeah, that’s it, so I need to be in the Godswood.”

    Dany: “Tyrion, you need to be in the crypt where it’s ‘safe.’”

    Tyrion: “No way!  I, uh, need to be on the battlements so I can direct our forces.”

    Jon: “Sam, you need to be in the crypt where it’s ‘safe.’”

    Sam: “I’ll head there directly after I’ve given away my valerian steel sword.”

    telephoneofmadnessCeciliaMSanguinePenguin
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