I’m really shocked that this episode is hated so much on here, I’ve just rewatched and it was as good the second time around. Sure the ghost thing is bullshit and perhaps the living were perhaps a bit too overwhelmed at times to feasibly survive but all in all I thought everything tracked well and all of it was deserved pay off to characters arcs.
No it does the opposite to characters arcs. By deciding to use Arya as the twist it makes them irrelevant. Why would the north now follow Danny to Kings landing. She didn't defeat the Night King, a Stark did, and it wasn't John (who still hasn't told the north who he really is) In fact her Dragons are the reason the Night King got thru the wall in the first place and led them to their front door. She is a foreigner who's past family history is not forgotten by the north. They owe her nothing. They have no interest in sitting on the throne. How would Sansa and John now convince the north that you've just been through hell so come and fight again in the next few days for a Queen you don;t care for or have any loyalty too. Danny has now no army and all the time building it, has now made her character weak and borderline wasted.
If they write some bullshit hope story about everybody suddenly going yer lets go straight into another war and heading up to Kings landing and killing Cersi and then everybody lives happily ever after then that's a shit way for a great show to choke on its own arrogance.
So the magic ninja who has been training as an Assassin killing the night king isn’t a good pay off? Despite her being given the dagger to do it last season? Or Mel’s prophecy that was given to her in season 2? Or her being trained for it since season one? All the main players played their part, without them all doing what they did, the living would have lost. Honestly how much of this blowback is because it subverted your expectations?
Amazing episode that I"m still replaying in my mind this morning! I know I'll have to watch it again to take the pure adrenaline/emotion from it but I was totally satisfied overall. Besides the lack of more characters I know dying (I mean how did Sam make it through at all), the other thought i had was how completely useless John was in this episode. I mean yeah he did the dragon battle, but he didn't really do anything his ride did, and then he couldn't get to the Night King, and pretty much would have died if Arya hadn't come through. So I do wonder how that will play out in the future if he really takes a look at his lack of military leadership and how that translates to his whole claim to the throne
Did anyone else get a little pumped when the Night King grabbed Arya? I do not want to see her die at all, but when he caught her, (My gf yelled "Oh No") i thought she was done for, and i was kind of pumped because her dying was more the GoT that I came to love. I totally see why they wouldn't kill her, people would lose it. But then again thats what GoT used to do so well, make people mad at the show. And they still might.
Mixed bag for me. Arya ending was cool, lots of great visuals, but looking back I have more disappointments.
1. The fact that anyone survived was a bit shocking. The fact that all the people standing at the end was all the characters we knew was bad. They were all surrounded repeatedly, including Sam laying on the ground. But they're all alive! And John was on the field of battle when every dead good guy was raised, and he fights them all off?!
2. The Arya library scene was enjoyable, but as soon as it was done I was wondering why all of a sudden the dead are not going to rampage and kill, but rather sloooowly walk around to check out the library?! Including one dude taking five minutes to bend down and look under a table?! Were they tired from running across the field? And they bleed? That one who Arya stabbed through the throat sure did. Guess they have blood pumping.
3. Melisandra just rides through death and night to show up? And I'm never a fan of someone having to work REALLY hard to say their magic words to get them to work.
4. I guess NK just wants death. Which is fine, I was just waiting for some reveal. And he's fire proof (?!)
5. After the emotional scene, Sansa and Tyrion did what exactly? Just move to a different hiding spot? Wasn't the whole build up of Arya giving her the dagger so she could use it?! Then...nothing.
6. The dead seemed to do a lot less shattering this time. Much more cleanup in store.
Again, great battle visuals (the ones I could see). Dothraki charge, dead making human (?) bridges over fire, dragon fight, etc. But then felt like every action movie where the good characters are standing at the end. Guess I'm more interested to see the aftermath and what needs to be done next.
I’m really shocked that this episode is hated so much on here, I’ve just rewatched and it was as good the second time around. Sure the ghost thing is bullshit and perhaps the living were perhaps a bit too overwhelmed at times to feasibly survive but all in all I thought everything tracked well and all of it was deserved pay off to characters arcs.
That's the thing about opinions -- everyone has their own. Your enjoyment of this episode may hinge on what you like about this show. I was expecting something surprising, and I guess if you love Arya, then you got it. I like her, but her leaping out of nowhere did nothing for me. And after Hardhome, I was looking forward to Jon getting to at least face the Night King. But they made him and Dany pretty useless, and I'm not sure why. Also, no major deaths in a battle this big is just kind of silly. After last episode, fans spent all week preparing for this, only for nothing to really happen. I don't know how else to describe that other than disappointing. I'm glad it's not the finale, and on the bright side, it really lowered my expectations going forward, but outside of a few great moments, this was pretty underwhelming. Not bad, but not great, Bob.
I shouted "FUCK YES" when Arya stabbed the Night King.
Otherwise, I'm kind of let down by this episode. There was certainly cool stuff in it but the strategy being deployed was pretty bad, this show always is kind of not good on that front, but I was hoping for something more sensible. I think they did a great job of ratcheting up the tension of things getting worse and worse as the dead eventually went inside the walls of the castle, but there just weren't enough deaths to make that ratcheting feel legitimate. There were several scenes of some of our favorite characters nearly swarmed, close to death, maybe in the next cut that's it they're gone, but then we cut back and they're fine and about to be overwhelmed again. I think the deaths we got were good, they were just predictable and not in as big a number as I was expecting. I get that the cost of this defense will be pretty high for Dany, losing the Dothraki and the much of the Unsullied, but it just didn't feel appropriately costly for the people we care about. I'm used to being punched in the guts/nuts by this show and it was more of a light nudging than anything.
This show mostly subsists on surprise for me. In the big battle scenes of past seasons, there have been a lot of great surprising, take your breath away moments. The huge pendulum coming out of the wall, giants, fire sword combat, dragons burning shit, the army of the dead flinging themselves at a target, being raised up again etc. This episode had all of that, but we've seen it before. For me, it didn't add enough new elements that were truly shocking or game-changing to feel like it's something truly special. For me, Hardhome does that best. That was amidst one of the worse seasons of the show in a situation I didn't entirely understand, but that episode set up the stakes of the battle and then repeatedly delivered great moments and shocking turns that kept me guessing, but left me genuinely satisfied. I think they just lost track of making smaller segments of the battle the best they could be because they had so much to do. I just wish there was more time for Brienne-Jaime-Pod-Tormund to do some cool tricks with one another rather than being swarmed the whole time. Get creative, solve some interesting problems with cool tricks inside the castle. Straw Dogs (or Home Alone) it in fun and interesting ways. Nothing like that. It could have used some spiders as big as hounds, for example.
The two deaths that got to me were Theon and Jorah, but I saw them coming a mile away. Some really well done battle stuff, but also some confusing, I don't know what I'm looking at stuff as well. A lot of setups without proper payoffs (I thought Sansa or Tyrion were gonna start stabbing but I guess not, Ghost just diseappearing, I don't think I saw Rhaegal get slashed as bad as people were saying to explain his absence but I just couldn't see a lot very well).
In a way it's good that the Night King is dealt with here in this generic fashion, GOT has always been better as a political drama with characters quipping and murdering each other. I'm sure there will be a battle of King's Landing, but there's better interaction to be had between enemies than zombies allow for. So in that respect I'm glad fewer people died here because it makes for better drama when they do die. We'll see if that's earned though.
7/10 from me, with a possibility to go up or down when I can actually see the damn thing, this episode was muddy as hell on cable.
Oh, and the fact they Arya developed a new weapon, which seemed to work amazingly well, until she dropped it after 30 seconds! Gendry must be pissed! But maybe she can find it for the next battle and add some grip tape or something.
Arya was hardly an ex machina device like some are saying: - she’s been training with swords since what, episode 1? - she was given lessons in King’s Landing by Syrio, an expert fighter, who also taught her to be quick and stealthy - Melisandre told her she would close many eyes forever: brown, green, and blue - she trained with the Faceless Men until she learned all their secrets - she pretty much bested Brienne last season, one of the best fighters in all of Westeros - she literally snuck up behind Jon right there in the Godswood just 2 episodes ago, prompting him to ask how she had done that - she saved Bran by killing the NK with the dagger that was meant to kill him in season 1 It’s not like this came out of nowhere. Dany with Drogon’s fire couldn’t kill NK, and while Jon is a great fighter, I’m pretty sure he could not have beaten a superhuman killing machine in a sword fight and I don’t see how it would have been more entertaining to watch him die trying.
I think the one interesting twist that this episode might lead to is that it's far more likely that Cersei ends up winning everything now.
It'll be extremely anticlimactic if Jon and Dany win and everyone we care about survives. It'll also be extremely anticlimactic if everyone we care about dies at the hands of a mercenary army. I really only see Cersei winning as the only satisfying ending at this point unless there's a major betrayal.
I feel like that's too much to ask at this point. I saw an article about how GoT has lost its ruthlessness and I agree. Not that I'm going to complain about a 'happy' ending, but the show's premise, seasons ago, was that that just wasn't possible. Now it feels pretty likely.
The dragons (and Dany and Jon) torched thousands of wights, which is a big deal no matter what.
Specific criticisms though -
When the wights are backed up behind the flaming trench, seems like that's the time to go HAM
I could hardly figure out what Jon was trying to do sometimes - he seemed lost. He was visually, which I get, but perching on the wall at Winterfell didn't seem to serve much purpose. Seemed like Dany was pretty much strafing non-stop, except for when she chased after the Night King.
Non-dragon - Sending the Dothraki into who knows what seemed weird. Why not shoot some of those flaming balls first and see what happens?
Melisandre coming from the direction of the wights was definitely puzzling, which was mentioned on the instant cast.
The Crypt Doors opening up Mid battle.....sansa looking scared.....was the Arya getting in and sneaking into the tunnels to get to the Weirwood area and stab the night king?
They sure made of point in showing the sound increase, like the doors had been opened, then nothing happened.
Overall i enjoyed the episode because i just enjoy the show and try not to apply my own expectations on to it. My random thoughts (in no particular order):
1) as plenty of people have said, the battle plan was weird. Why not have far more trenches lit with fire? Why have your army charge and not make the dead come to you? Why was Ghost on the front line and not used as protection? Although, since we didn't see Ghost die, no guarantees that Ghost is dead. Now, if we don't see Ghost in the next 3 episodes or hear about him, then I'm going to presume that he died during the battle.
2) What was Bran doing with the ravens? Was there any point? Unless his powers act as a GPS finder for the NK, there was no point in Bran warging (and this is debatable because does Bran have to warg for the NK to find him or because Bran has a mark on him already, can't the NK just know where he is?)
3) Is Arya now considered to be Azor Ahai or the "prince or princess that was promised" because she killed the NK?
4) Clearly the NK forgot to read about the Evil Overlord handbook in which one of the rules is you never delay to kill your enemy. You do it as quickly as possible to not allow someone like Arya to sneak up on you to save the day.
5) Did Jon really do anything during this battle? Just seemed like he was there like anyone else. I don't really recall a special moment by him. Yes, he had a dragon battle and such but I don't know, it didn't stand out to me like when he was at the Battle of the Bastards. Would have liked at least one moment of Jon squaring off with the NK before the NK died. Or hell, let Jon kill Viscerion first and then have the NK die as oppose to the NK dies and so Viscerion now dies.
6) I was annoyed that skeletons in the crypt started to fight out. I really thought they should have limited the NK's power by making it only people that he or his army killed and not just any dead. Otherwise, the NK should have just gone up to the Castle and done his hand rise thing right from the start and done this to every place he stopped at just to increase his army at an exponential rate.
7) wasn't a big fan of Melissandre just deciding it was time to die. Yeah, i guess i can get the whole "i served my purpose" type thing but it just seemed like she opted to die as oppose to dying for a reason.
I loved the episode and frankly all the "hot takes" of people crapping on it make me wonder if we're watching the same show.
After 801 when there were tons of issues with the HBO feed glitching and scaling, I now watch each GoT epsiodes after they debut so I can get a solid picture. I started it as it ended the broadcast debut.
I watched the episode in a dark room and didn't have any troubles seeing everything on screen. None at all.
Arya was the only one who COULD kill the night King. Dany couldn't. Jon couldn't. They even showed that literally in this episode.
Seriously, I don't get the hate. Whatever. I freaking loved it.
It's fine for people to be pleased or disappointed, but don't be shitty to other people about their opinion. Not directing that at anyone in particular.
I will try to compose myself but my god why do people keep drinking the cool aid. Although it had some cool moments, just about everything we wanted to see was thrown in our faces. It's as if we were shanked by Arya. 1. Soo dark you could hardly tell what was going on. 2. Although it was cool...The build up with the Dothraki....killed in the first minute?? Who made that battle plan to send them riding into the dark against the unknown? 3. Ghost is so much of an afterthought that he just runs in the the dothraki and we don't even know if he lives....Jon doesn't even have a scene with him? Doesn't ride him into battle or fight with him? They couldn't have Ghost run out of the dark when he is surrounded by wights? Nothing!!!!! 4. Song of Ice and fire....Jon (Ice), Danny (fire)...Stumble around useless all battle? Really? 5. With all the mystic of Winterfell...Nothing? Doesn't matter. Knight king just walks in, Wights in the crypts just pop out...So much for the Wierwoods. 6. Jon runs towards the Night King...Finally! 1 vs. 1 Jon vs. Night King. Culmination of all the books and show....Nope! Night King just turns away...Leaves insignificant Jon to his minions. 7. Hound...Looking for redemption for fear of fire. Nope! Hides out until he sees Arya kicking ass. 8. Jaime...Looking for redemption.. Shows up alone to fight the army of the dead...Can't hardly see him it was so dark. No epic moments...Nothing. 9. Brien Knighted...Leads the flank...Same as above...Can't hardly see her. 10. We do have some epic moments... Jorah...Okay that was perfect. Awesome. Lyanna...Cool but really...Do we care about her? Is that what the fans were waiting for? Theon...OK good but again, were we waiting for Theon? and after slaying all the wights, he couldn't make a better showing than the ridiculous run with the spear? Beric was good but he's not even alive in the books. 11. Melisandra...I mean cool, but again... we we waiting 8 seasons and all the books (Even though George has given us the finger and won't finish them) to see her as the hero? 12. Tyrion and Sansa hide out behind a tomb while their people get slaughtered in the crypts...What heroes. Bravo. 13. Why would anyone follow Jon and Danny now! They disappear and are useless as military leaders. 14. Jon doesn't ride Ghost into battle, doesn't inspire the troops, no speech, nothing. 15. We all like Arya but narratively...Really! She's an assassin..and meant to kill Cersei...Why the Night King. I guarantee Martin does not have Arya killing him. Again...Song of Ice and Fire remember! Might as well have named the series..".A girl has no name"
We all know they will defeat Cersei so at this point, who cares....At least we might get Clegane bowl but the double D's will probably fork us on that too.
I liked it. Had a hard time following it at times. I don't think my TV does blacks well.
I could barely see a lot of it - I spent ages fiddling with the settings on my TV to no avail. I think they just film way too dark, which is annoying.
in the BTS special "Game Revealed: The Long Night" they showed exactly how they filmed it and there is plenty of lighting on the original film, although it is a night shoot. They artificially darken the scenes in post-production, because... well, I guess it should be really dark in The Long Night..at night.
I would link it, but they won't upload it to Youtube until some time today. It's also on the episode extras on the HBO streaming sites like HBO Now.
I didn't think about it until watching Dan and Dave point out that "Arya had to insert the blade into the exact same spot that the Children of the Forest shoved dragonglass into when they made the Night King (his heart) in order to kill him"...
And then I thought about the fact that the Hound taught Arya where the heart is.
6) I was annoyed that skeletons in the crypt started to fight out. I really thought they should have limited the NK's power by making it only people that he or his army killed and not just any dead. Otherwise, the NK should have just gone up to the Castle and done his hand rise thing right from the start and done this to every place he stopped at just to increase his army at an exponential rate.
I thought those were AOTD just finally breaking into the crypts. Not ancient Starks coming up ...
6) I was annoyed that skeletons in the crypt started to fight out. I really thought they should have limited the NK's power by making it only people that he or his army killed and not just any dead. Otherwise, the NK should have just gone up to the Castle and done his hand rise thing right from the start and done this to every place he stopped at just to increase his army at an exponential rate.
I thought those were AOTD just finally breaking into the crypts. Not ancient Starks coming up ...
That's what I thought too. They were the dead breaking into the crypt not dead Starks breaking out of their tombs.. That's what I perceived anyway.
7) wasn't a big fan of Melissandre just deciding it was time to die. Yeah, i guess i can get the whole "i served my purpose" type thing but it just seemed like she opted to die as oppose to dying for a reason.
She was out of time; her red light was blinking like Ultraman's ;-)
6) I was annoyed that skeletons in the crypt started to fight out. I really thought they should have limited the NK's power by making it only people that he or his army killed and not just any dead. Otherwise, the NK should have just gone up to the Castle and done his hand rise thing right from the start and done this to every place he stopped at just to increase his army at an exponential rate.
I thought those were AOTD just finally breaking into the crypts. Not ancient Starks coming up ...
That's what I thought too. They were the dead breaking into the crypt not dead Starks breaking out of their tombs.. That's what I perceived anyway.
I wish that were true, but in the after episode special they explicitly say it's the dead from the crypts being resurrected. They show how they copied what real mummified remains in similar conditions and ages look like to create these mummified looking wights.
For the first half of the episode, I thought I was gonna hate it - the battle plan made no sense at all, the zombies were suddenly 28 days later zombies, sprinting and jumping and climbing like freaking olympians (have they ever been like that before? I thought they were more shambly), they were putting main characters in situations that no one would survive and then they suddenly survived, and I couldn't see WTF was happening 1/3 of the time (I've never had this issue with anything else on my TV - it's an slightly older but very good 1080p panel), but that was partially the HBO servers as it seemed to be about 1/2 darkness problems and 1/2 streaming issues.
But the 2nd half totally redeemed it! Dragon on dragon combat! Lyanna going out like a badass! The fakeout with Jon not saving the day like the episode was telling us he would. They full circle back to Arya's season 2(3?) prophecy from Melisandre. The payoff with catspaw - Bran has been telling us all along "all that matters is that everything that you did brought you to this moment" - think about the journey that dagger has been through, and every situation that led to Arya having it, at Winterfell, at this moment. Jorah's death, despite being a bit "how did he get there," was incredibly emotional. As was Theon's (you're a good man, Theon, thank you - all Theon has wanted his entire life is to be accepted and loved by the Starks, and he finally gets it).
The episode definitely had some issues, and was shakey at the start, but holy shit did it stick the landing.
Edit - On Melisandre, as she walked out the front gates of the castle, it sure looked to me like the gem was cracked - I think that was showing she had just used too much of her power and was dying soon anyway, and was choosing to go out on her terms.
I know I going backwards a little, but i swear everytime Jon gets on a Dragon, which is a lot these days, and no one freaks out about it... is so weird to me. lol
My only explanation for Ghost surviving and never being seen again (until next week) is that while they are charging the wight army, Ghost sees a squirrel in the forest and ran straight to it chasing it for the entirety of the battle.
Thank you squirrel friend, for saving our good boy Ghost from being sacrificed in the most senseless battle maneuver we've ever seen.
My only explanation for Ghost surviving and never being seen again (until next week) is that while they are charging the wight army, Ghost sees a squirrel in the forest and ran straight to it chasing it for the entirety of the battle.
Thank you squirrel friend, for saving our good boy Ghost from being sacrificed in the most senseless battle maneuver we've ever seen.
I just think that Ghost is smarter than the Dothraki, he probably smartly ran the other direction once he saw how many there were.
So the magic ninja who has been training as an Assassin killing the night king isn’t a good pay off? Despite her being given the dagger to do it last season? Or Mel’s prophecy that was given to her in season 2? Or her being trained for it since season one? All the main players played their part, without them all doing what they did, the living would have lost. Honestly how much of this blowback is because it subverted your expectations?
Seriously.. It wasn't fucking Sansa with the dragon glass dagger she just received saving the day. It was Arya Stark who has basically been training for this for the whole show. I loved this episode! My heart was pounding for the entire 82 minutes. Cant wait to watch this over and over.
Real quick -- it was a dumb battle plan in the first place, but what were the Dothraki going to do if Mel hadn't shown up at the last second and light their swords ablaze? Their Arakhs aren't made of valyrians steel. I suppose that they could have also had draonglass spears, but I didn't notice them and it looked like they were depending on their arakh weapons when they were about to charge.
Oh, and @asmallcat they have shown them being that fast and ferocious before. At Hardhome, in the tree cave when Hodor died, in the woods when Cold Hands Benjen had to save Bran and Meera, in the Beyond the Wall episode, etc. There were other scenes as well. They are only the slow, plodding zombies when there are no living people around to kill.
A few things that become clear when you watching the making of this episode - 1. A battle that lasts 70+ minutes can get dull pretty quick. Pacing is difficult so you have to create mini-arc's throughout the episode to keep the viewer engaged. Hence the constant cut-aways to different characters and their struggles 2. The lighting/darkness of the scenes. I watched this at night, with all the lights off on a OLED 65" TV and it was absolutely perfect. I tend to keep my screen on the Cinema mode which increases contrast and that seemed to work really well. Another option is the Sports mode which will make everything much brighter. Unfortunately, if your TV has shit for black level, it is going to be difficult. 3. I'm not quite sure how you can be underwhelmed. They spent 3 MONTHS filming at night for just this episode. The amount of work that went into this was obvious on screen and I thought it was great. The amount of CGI was minimal compared to anything in the theaters today. There's literally NEVER been anything like this filmed for TV. Everyone has an idea in their head of how this battle will go down, but to say it was underwhelming is a poor choice of words. I think a better phrasing is "not living up to your expectations". 4. They've known for years that Arya kills the Night King - it's been in the prophecy since Season 2. Yet despite that, it wasn't until Melissandra drops the line again that it all clicked for me. Arya runs off screen and I was just waiting for the dagger stab! Ironic how the same dagger that was meant to kill Bran ends up killing the Night King. 5. Finally - some people have expressed anger at GoT. I don't get that - it's a TV show based on a book and meant for entertainment. If you really don't like it, that's fine (my feelings about Breaking Bad), but to get online and shout about how they should've done this and done that - you're yelling in the wind. Sit back and enjoy or start binging something else!
This was probably one of the worst episodes of television I’ve ever watched from a visual quality standpoint. Couldn’t see shit. Was there a dragon battle or clouds fighting over the same airspace?
Perhaps it was your stream? Unless you are on cable. I'm on ATT Fiber and the Amazon Prime feed wasn't bad. A bit glitchy in the dragon's in the clouds scenes.
Comments
If they write some bullshit hope story about everybody suddenly going yer lets go straight into another war and heading up to Kings landing and killing Cersi and then everybody lives happily ever after then that's a shit way for a great show to choke on its own arrogance.
Did anyone else get a little pumped when the Night King grabbed Arya? I do not want to see her die at all, but when he caught her, (My gf yelled "Oh No") i thought she was done for, and i was kind of pumped because her dying was more the GoT that I came to love. I totally see why they wouldn't kill her, people would lose it. But then again thats what GoT used to do so well, make people mad at the show. And they still might.
(Again, I like the episode more than most.)
That's the thing about opinions -- everyone has their own. Your enjoyment of this episode may hinge on what you like about this show. I was expecting something surprising, and I guess if you love Arya, then you got it. I like her, but her leaping out of nowhere did nothing for me. And after Hardhome, I was looking forward to Jon getting to at least face the Night King. But they made him and Dany pretty useless, and I'm not sure why. Also, no major deaths in a battle this big is just kind of silly. After last episode, fans spent all week preparing for this, only for nothing to really happen. I don't know how else to describe that other than disappointing. I'm glad it's not the finale, and on the bright side, it really lowered my expectations going forward, but outside of a few great moments, this was pretty underwhelming. Not bad, but not great, Bob.
Otherwise, I'm kind of let down by this episode. There was certainly cool stuff in it but the strategy being deployed was pretty bad, this show always is kind of not good on that front, but I was hoping for something more sensible. I think they did a great job of ratcheting up the tension of things getting worse and worse as the dead eventually went inside the walls of the castle, but there just weren't enough deaths to make that ratcheting feel legitimate. There were several scenes of some of our favorite characters nearly swarmed, close to death, maybe in the next cut that's it they're gone, but then we cut back and they're fine and about to be overwhelmed again. I think the deaths we got were good, they were just predictable and not in as big a number as I was expecting. I get that the cost of this defense will be pretty high for Dany, losing the Dothraki and the much of the Unsullied, but it just didn't feel appropriately costly for the people we care about. I'm used to being punched in the guts/nuts by this show and it was more of a light nudging than anything.
This show mostly subsists on surprise for me. In the big battle scenes of past seasons, there have been a lot of great surprising, take your breath away moments. The huge pendulum coming out of the wall, giants, fire sword combat, dragons burning shit, the army of the dead flinging themselves at a target, being raised up again etc. This episode had all of that, but we've seen it before. For me, it didn't add enough new elements that were truly shocking or game-changing to feel like it's something truly special. For me, Hardhome does that best. That was amidst one of the worse seasons of the show in a situation I didn't entirely understand, but that episode set up the stakes of the battle and then repeatedly delivered great moments and shocking turns that kept me guessing, but left me genuinely satisfied. I think they just lost track of making smaller segments of the battle the best they could be because they had so much to do. I just wish there was more time for Brienne-Jaime-Pod-Tormund to do some cool tricks with one another rather than being swarmed the whole time. Get creative, solve some interesting problems with cool tricks inside the castle. Straw Dogs (or Home Alone) it in fun and interesting ways. Nothing like that. It could have used some spiders as big as hounds, for example.
The two deaths that got to me were Theon and Jorah, but I saw them coming a mile away. Some really well done battle stuff, but also some confusing, I don't know what I'm looking at stuff as well. A lot of setups without proper payoffs (I thought Sansa or Tyrion were gonna start stabbing but I guess not, Ghost just diseappearing, I don't think I saw Rhaegal get slashed as bad as people were saying to explain his absence but I just couldn't see a lot very well).
In a way it's good that the Night King is dealt with here in this generic fashion, GOT has always been better as a political drama with characters quipping and murdering each other. I'm sure there will be a battle of King's Landing, but there's better interaction to be had between enemies than zombies allow for. So in that respect I'm glad fewer people died here because it makes for better drama when they do die. We'll see if that's earned though.
7/10 from me, with a possibility to go up or down when I can actually see the damn thing, this episode was muddy as hell on cable.
- she’s been training with swords since what, episode 1?
- she was given lessons in King’s Landing by Syrio, an expert fighter, who also taught her to be quick and stealthy
- Melisandre told her she would close many eyes forever: brown, green, and blue
- she trained with the Faceless Men until she learned all their secrets
- she pretty much bested Brienne last season, one of the best fighters in all of Westeros
- she literally snuck up behind Jon right there in the Godswood just 2 episodes ago, prompting him to ask how she had done that
- she saved Bran by killing the NK with the dagger that was meant to kill him in season 1
It’s not like this came out of nowhere. Dany with Drogon’s fire couldn’t kill NK, and while Jon is a great fighter, I’m pretty sure he could not have beaten a superhuman killing machine in a sword fight and I don’t see how it would have been more entertaining to watch him die trying.
I feel like that's too much to ask at this point. I saw an article about how GoT has lost its ruthlessness and I agree. Not that I'm going to complain about a 'happy' ending, but the show's premise, seasons ago, was that that just wasn't possible. Now it feels pretty likely.
Specific criticisms though -
When the wights are backed up behind the flaming trench, seems like that's the time to go HAM
I could hardly figure out what Jon was trying to do sometimes - he seemed lost. He was visually, which I get, but perching on the wall at Winterfell didn't seem to serve much purpose. Seemed like Dany was pretty much strafing non-stop, except for when she chased after the Night King.
Non-dragon - Sending the Dothraki into who knows what seemed weird. Why not shoot some of those flaming balls first and see what happens?
Melisandre coming from the direction of the wights was definitely puzzling, which was mentioned on the instant cast.
They sure made of point in showing the sound increase, like the doors had been opened, then nothing happened.
Overall i enjoyed the episode because i just enjoy the show and try not to apply my own expectations on to it. My random thoughts (in no particular order):
1) as plenty of people have said, the battle plan was weird. Why not have far more trenches lit with fire? Why have your army charge and not make the dead come to you? Why was Ghost on the front line and not used as protection? Although, since we didn't see Ghost die, no guarantees that Ghost is dead. Now, if we don't see Ghost in the next 3 episodes or hear about him, then I'm going to presume that he died during the battle.
2) What was Bran doing with the ravens? Was there any point? Unless his powers act as a GPS finder for the NK, there was no point in Bran warging (and this is debatable because does Bran have to warg for the NK to find him or because Bran has a mark on him already, can't the NK just know where he is?)
3) Is Arya now considered to be Azor Ahai or the "prince or princess that was promised" because she killed the NK?
4) Clearly the NK forgot to read about the Evil Overlord handbook in which one of the rules is you never delay to kill your enemy. You do it as quickly as possible to not allow someone like Arya to sneak up on you to save the day.
5) Did Jon really do anything during this battle? Just seemed like he was there like anyone else. I don't really recall a special moment by him. Yes, he had a dragon battle and such but I don't know, it didn't stand out to me like when he was at the Battle of the Bastards. Would have liked at least one moment of Jon squaring off with the NK before the NK died. Or hell, let Jon kill Viscerion first and then have the NK die as oppose to the NK dies and so Viscerion now dies.
6) I was annoyed that skeletons in the crypt started to fight out. I really thought they should have limited the NK's power by making it only people that he or his army killed and not just any dead. Otherwise, the NK should have just gone up to the Castle and done his hand rise thing right from the start and done this to every place he stopped at just to increase his army at an exponential rate.
7) wasn't a big fan of Melissandre just deciding it was time to die. Yeah, i guess i can get the whole "i served my purpose" type thing but it just seemed like she opted to die as oppose to dying for a reason.
After 801 when there were tons of issues with the HBO feed glitching and scaling, I now watch each GoT epsiodes after they debut so I can get a solid picture. I started it as it ended the broadcast debut.
I watched the episode in a dark room and didn't have any troubles seeing everything on screen. None at all.
Arya was the only one who COULD kill the night King. Dany couldn't. Jon couldn't. They even showed that literally in this episode.
Seriously, I don't get the hate. Whatever. I freaking loved it.
1. Soo dark you could hardly tell what was going on.
2. Although it was cool...The build up with the Dothraki....killed in the first minute?? Who made that battle plan to send them riding into the dark against the unknown?
3. Ghost is so much of an afterthought that he just runs in the the dothraki and we don't even know if he lives....Jon doesn't even have a scene with him? Doesn't ride him into battle or fight with him? They couldn't have Ghost run out of the dark when he is surrounded by wights? Nothing!!!!!
4. Song of Ice and fire....Jon (Ice), Danny (fire)...Stumble around useless all battle? Really?
5. With all the mystic of Winterfell...Nothing? Doesn't matter. Knight king just walks in, Wights in the crypts just pop out...So much for the Wierwoods.
6. Jon runs towards the Night King...Finally! 1 vs. 1 Jon vs. Night King. Culmination of all the books and show....Nope! Night King just turns away...Leaves insignificant Jon to his minions.
7. Hound...Looking for redemption for fear of fire. Nope! Hides out until he sees Arya kicking ass.
8. Jaime...Looking for redemption.. Shows up alone to fight the army of the dead...Can't hardly see him it was so dark. No epic moments...Nothing.
9. Brien Knighted...Leads the flank...Same as above...Can't hardly see her.
10. We do have some epic moments... Jorah...Okay that was perfect. Awesome. Lyanna...Cool but really...Do we care about her? Is that what the fans were waiting for? Theon...OK good but again, were we waiting for Theon? and after slaying all the wights, he couldn't make a better showing than the ridiculous run with the spear? Beric was good but he's not even alive in the books.
11. Melisandra...I mean cool, but again... we we waiting 8 seasons and all the books (Even though George has given us the finger and won't finish them) to see her as the hero?
12. Tyrion and Sansa hide out behind a tomb while their people get slaughtered in the crypts...What heroes. Bravo.
13. Why would anyone follow Jon and Danny now! They disappear and are useless as military leaders.
14. Jon doesn't ride Ghost into battle, doesn't inspire the troops, no speech, nothing.
15. We all like Arya but narratively...Really! She's an assassin..and meant to kill Cersei...Why the Night King. I guarantee Martin does not have Arya killing him. Again...Song of Ice and Fire remember! Might as well have named the series..".A girl has no name"
We all know they will defeat Cersei so at this point, who cares....At least we might get Clegane bowl but the double D's will probably fork us on that too.
I would link it, but they won't upload it to Youtube until some time today. It's also on the episode extras on the HBO streaming sites like HBO Now.
And then I thought about the fact that the Hound taught Arya where the heart is.
I thought those were AOTD just finally breaking into the crypts. Not ancient Starks coming up ...
They just broke through cement barriers somehow.
But the 2nd half totally redeemed it! Dragon on dragon combat! Lyanna going out like a badass! The fakeout with Jon not saving the day like the episode was telling us he would. They full circle back to Arya's season 2(3?) prophecy from Melisandre. The payoff with catspaw - Bran has been telling us all along "all that matters is that everything that you did brought you to this moment" - think about the journey that dagger has been through, and every situation that led to Arya having it, at Winterfell, at this moment. Jorah's death, despite being a bit "how did he get there," was incredibly emotional. As was Theon's (you're a good man, Theon, thank you - all Theon has wanted his entire life is to be accepted and loved by the Starks, and he finally gets it).
The episode definitely had some issues, and was shakey at the start, but holy shit did it stick the landing.
Edit - On Melisandre, as she walked out the front gates of the castle, it sure looked to me like the gem was cracked - I think that was showing she had just used too much of her power and was dying soon anyway, and was choosing to go out on her terms.
I know I going backwards a little, but i swear everytime Jon gets on a Dragon, which is a lot these days, and no one freaks out about it... is so weird to me. lol
(i know we got some looks from tyrion and varys)
Oh, and @asmallcat they have shown them being that fast and ferocious before. At Hardhome, in the tree cave when Hodor died, in the woods when Cold Hands Benjen had to save Bran and Meera, in the Beyond the Wall episode, etc. There were other scenes as well. They are only the slow, plodding zombies when there are no living people around to kill.
1. A battle that lasts 70+ minutes can get dull pretty quick. Pacing is difficult so you have to create mini-arc's throughout the episode to keep the viewer engaged. Hence the constant cut-aways to different characters and their struggles
2. The lighting/darkness of the scenes. I watched this at night, with all the lights off on a OLED 65" TV and it was absolutely perfect. I tend to keep my screen on the Cinema mode which increases contrast and that seemed to work really well. Another option is the Sports mode which will make everything much brighter. Unfortunately, if your TV has shit for black level, it is going to be difficult.
3. I'm not quite sure how you can be underwhelmed. They spent 3 MONTHS filming at night for just this episode. The amount of work that went into this was obvious on screen and I thought it was great. The amount of CGI was minimal compared to anything in the theaters today. There's literally NEVER been anything like this filmed for TV. Everyone has an idea in their head of how this battle will go down, but to say it was underwhelming is a poor choice of words. I think a better phrasing is "not living up to your expectations".
4. They've known for years that Arya kills the Night King - it's been in the prophecy since Season 2. Yet despite that, it wasn't until Melissandra drops the line again that it all clicked for me. Arya runs off screen and I was just waiting for the dagger stab! Ironic how the same dagger that was meant to kill Bran ends up killing the Night King.
5. Finally - some people have expressed anger at GoT. I don't get that - it's a TV show based on a book and meant for entertainment. If you really don't like it, that's fine (my feelings about Breaking Bad), but to get online and shout about how they should've done this and done that - you're yelling in the wind. Sit back and enjoy or start binging something else!
just my 2c