Got Stick? 2019/20 NHL Talk

24

Comments

  • CoryCory New Scotland
    I'm more shocked Crosby is 2nd in points than Kane leading, since he played 115 more games than Crosby.  Only Malkin played fewer games than Crosby among the top 29 scorers.

    I think TSN had Kane (with Sid and Ovechkin) in their all-decade starting lineup.  Weird that NBC wouldn't have their countryman on their list.
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    edited January 2020
    Crosby has more PPG than anyone else but health is a factor when it comes to value. And playing 115 more games actually is a testament to Kanes health and conditioning and shouldn’t be a knock on this point debate. 

    The truth is Kane was available for his team and played almost the entire decade minus one major injury. He scored those points and for the first half of the decade those points were critical in winning 3 cups. 


  • Any coach is going to take a guy who was on the ice and scored the most points over a guy who had more PPG. 
  • In terms of style of play (NOT skill level) Patrick Kane is the most Wayne Gretzky-like player since Wayne.  I mean, when you watch him play, the way he skates, the way he moves, how he positions himself etc he looks like Wayne.
    Hatorian
  • In terms of style of play (NOT skill level) Patrick Kane is the most Wayne Gretzky-like player since Wayne.  I mean, when you watch him play, the way he skates, the way he moves, how he positions himself etc he looks like Wayne.

    Too bad he seems to put partying before hockey. Players like him and Seguin make me angry. To have that talent an opportunity and not putting 100% in rubs me the wrong way.

    CretanBull
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    Hatorian said:
    Crosby has more PPG than anyone else but health is a factor when it comes to value. And playing 115 more games actually is a testament to Kanes health and conditioning and shouldn’t be a knock on this point debate. 

    The truth is Kane was available for his team and played almost the entire decade minus one major injury. He scored those points and for the first half of the decade those points were critical in winning 3 cups. 


    I wasn't trying to advocate for Crosby over Kane, but since you brought it up, I'd take Crosby long, long, long before Kane.  I'm not going to hold his concussions* against him (the NHL brass should/could have done much better in trying to prevent that, and it bit them in the ass when it took out the league's biggest star).  It wasn't his conditioning that was the problem.

    Crosby's the captain, takes faceoffs (greatly improved on that through hard work), plays both ends, and has the biggest target on his back in the league.  He has also drunk from Lord Stanley's chalice three times and has back to back Conn Smythe's, to Kane's 1.  Crosby is also a better playoff performer, being just 3 playoff assists shy of Kane's 123 playoff points.

    I'd probably take him over Stamkos though.  I've always thought that St. Louis was the offensive leader of the Lightning, even when Stamkos potted 60 one year.


    *My three biggest "piss-offs" about the NHL are the Mats Sundin trade, Crosby's concussions, and the Taylor Hall trade.

    #4 is probably how the Blackhawks got fucked over by the (less than a day) late paperwork, making Byfuglien, Ladd, Versteeg, etc RFA's early.  Especially that it was probably Stan Bowman's error, yet he got a promotion out of it.  But they still won 3 Cups, so I can't feel too bad for them.
    Hatorian
  • Kane is super talented, but he's not in Crosby's league.  In a best on best tournament - the Olympics - Crosby put Team Canada on his back and won a Gold through sheer force of will.  Kane has all the talent in the world, but he's missing the character 'X' factor.  Kane wins, but Crosby is a winner.
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    CapeGabe said:
    In terms of style of play (NOT skill level) Patrick Kane is the most Wayne Gretzky-like player since Wayne.  I mean, when you watch him play, the way he skates, the way he moves, how he positions himself etc he looks like Wayne.

    Too bad he seems to put partying before hockey. Players like him and Seguin make me angry. To have that talent an opportunity and not putting 100% in rubs me the wrong way.

    Are there more instances than the taxi cab driver?
  • Cory said:
    CapeGabe said:
    In terms of style of play (NOT skill level) Patrick Kane is the most Wayne Gretzky-like player since Wayne.  I mean, when you watch him play, the way he skates, the way he moves, how he positions himself etc he looks like Wayne.

    Too bad he seems to put partying before hockey. Players like him and Seguin make me angry. To have that talent an opportunity and not putting 100% in rubs me the wrong way.

    Are there more instances than the taxi cab driver?
    That was the most public but there were a million stories up until 2017 of him being blackout drunk all over the place. I assume he got his shit together eventually.

  • It's probably unfair to hold things that he did as a kid against him, but when he played for London (OHL) he was a complete nightmare...constant problems, family issues etc
  • edited January 2020
    There is a difference between young guys with money & fame getting after it and guys that make partying priority #1.

    When the Bruins won the cup Marchand was showing up all over town in the off offseason with no shirt and closing the bars. The Bruins sent him home after a month of that.

    Seguin on the other hand ended up having a guard on his hotel room because as soon as they landed for an away game he would disappear until game time and not show up in playing condition. 

  • Anyone want to trade for Galchenyuk or Bjugstad?  Not toxic, but the chemistry has not been there during their Penguins tenure.   I'll throw in Murray.
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    I have zero faith in Galchenyuk anymore.  Once upon a time, I'd have been willing to try him on the Oilers (if they could get him cheaply) to pair with Yakopov, but that died many years ago too.

    He's already on my Pens, I don't want him on my Av's.
  • He will be an expensive healthy scratch soon.  He has been given opportunities on all four lines, but, cannot produce.
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    edited January 2020
    Maybe they can give him away, but probably not without giving up a draft pick, which they don't want to burn just to get rid of his contract.
  • Mission accomplished - welcome to Pittsburgh Zucker.
  • edited February 2020
    tom_g said:
    Mission accomplished - welcome to Pittsburgh Zucker.
    As a Minnesota native and Wild fan, I was really sad to see Zucker go but I'm happy to see him go to a team like Pittsburgh.  He deserved better than what Minnesota had to offer and I can almost guarantee he will thrive as a Penguin.  
  • awookiee said:
    tom_g said:
    Mission accomplished - welcome to Pittsburgh Zucker.
    As a Minnesota native and Wild fan, I was really sad to see Zucker go but I'm happy to see him go to a team like Pittsburgh.  He deserved better than what Minnesota had to offer and I can almost guarantee he will thrive as a Penguin.  
    I think Minnesota will be happy too...getting a 1st rounder + is an excellent return for Zucker.
    awookiee
  • Has analytics taken over hockey like it has other sports?  Partially asking because as I was watching the final minutes of Boston-Montreal last night, the commentators were talking about pulling the goalie, down by 2, with like 3min 30sec left in the game (or around then) and I was wondering how that seemed early to pull the goalie.  But then I thought, well, maybe the analytics say that this is a proper time to pull the goalie when down by 2.  So, just wondering to more consistent viewers, has analytics taken over?
  • calebthrowercalebthrower South Carolina
    Has analytics taken over hockey like it has other sports?  Partially asking because as I was watching the final minutes of Boston-Montreal last night, the commentators were talking about pulling the goalie, down by 2, with like 3min 30sec left in the game (or around then) and I was wondering how that seemed early to pull the goalie.  But then I thought, well, maybe the analytics say that this is a proper time to pull the goalie when down by 2.  So, just wondering to more consistent viewers, has analytics taken over?
    I think it has to some degree, but Montreal is in a weird spot. They are 8 points or so back of the last wild card slot so it's go time for them. In that moment, there is really nothing to lose by pulling Price a tad earlier than normal as gamble. Of course, as a Bruins fan, I'm thrilled that the Canadiens are more than likely going to miss the playoffs. For the Bruins to make a run, they do need another 2nd line winger with Krejci though
  • Has analytics taken over hockey like it has other sports?  Partially asking because as I was watching the final minutes of Boston-Montreal last night, the commentators were talking about pulling the goalie, down by 2, with like 3min 30sec left in the game (or around then) and I was wondering how that seemed early to pull the goalie.  But then I thought, well, maybe the analytics say that this is a proper time to pull the goalie when down by 2.  So, just wondering to more consistent viewers, has analytics taken over?
    It is partially an analytic thing. Patrick Roy started pulling goalies way early in Colorado and it often worked so more people did it. Then the stat nerds came in and took all that data and crunched it so now some pulling of the goalie is dictated by the stat nerds.

    As also mentioned above Montreal is desperate for points so they are also willing to take more of a chance, which is slightly surprising because Claude probably doesn't take a dump unless he's planned it out a few hours in advance.

  • Filthy assist by Marchand last night



  • CapeGabe said:
    Has analytics taken over hockey like it has other sports?  Partially asking because as I was watching the final minutes of Boston-Montreal last night, the commentators were talking about pulling the goalie, down by 2, with like 3min 30sec left in the game (or around then) and I was wondering how that seemed early to pull the goalie.  But then I thought, well, maybe the analytics say that this is a proper time to pull the goalie when down by 2.  So, just wondering to more consistent viewers, has analytics taken over?
    It is partially an analytic thing. Patrick Roy started pulling goalies way early in Colorado and it often worked so more people did it. Then the stat nerds came in and took all that data and crunched it so now some pulling of the goalie is dictated by the stat nerds.

    As also mentioned above Montreal is desperate for points so they are also willing to take more of a chance, which is slightly surprising because Claude probably doesn't take a dump unless he's planned it out a few hours in advance.


    Ok, thanks.  So basically, yes, analytics have infected the NHL as well.
  • Kassian, what the fuck man.
    CretanBull
  • Has analytics taken over hockey like it has other sports?  Partially asking because as I was watching the final minutes of Boston-Montreal last night, the commentators were talking about pulling the goalie, down by 2, with like 3min 30sec left in the game (or around then) and I was wondering how that seemed early to pull the goalie.  But then I thought, well, maybe the analytics say that this is a proper time to pull the goalie when down by 2.  So, just wondering to more consistent viewers, has analytics taken over?
    Fancy stats have been in the hockey world for a long time, they just weren't involved in discussions among fans until a guy named Vic Ferrari who ran an Edmonton Oilers blog page started reporting on them.  That was maybe 15 years ago.  He didn't have names for any of the stats so he basically invented them.  He named CORSI after Buffalo Sabre's goalie coach Jim Corsi, because he got the idea of rating CORSI after listening to an interview that Jim Corsi did where he talked about how the Sabres determine when to rest their goalies.  He named Fenwick after a fellow blogger named Matt Fenwick who came up with his own version of CORSI, so he named that version Fenwick to differentiate it from his own version.

    The teams themselves had been using those numbers for a long time.  For example, what we call CORSI the Buffalo Sabres called the "Reiger Number" - they named it after their GM at the time.

    A friend of mine was a GTHL scout for a long time, he was an early adaptor to fancy stats and it paid off huge for him.  He went from scouting the GTHL, to becoming a scout for the Sault Ste Marie Greyhounds.  The Greyhounds GM -Kyle Dubas - was a fancy-stat convert and my friend ended up working side by side with him as the Greyhounds Director of Player Personnel.  When the Toronto Maple Leafs hired Dubas as their GM, he brought my friend along with him (about a year later) and he now works as a scout for the Leafs.
     
    DoubleA_Ron
  • Inconsistency and the NHL Department of Player Safety - name a more iconic duo
    CretanBull
  • This is such an incredible story!


    Hatorian
  • This is such an incredible story!


    The blackhawks has a similar story with an emergency goalie from the suburbs who helped win a game.
  • No other sport has anything like it.  So happy for the dude, and he got $500!
    CretanBull
  • Hatorian said:
    This is such an incredible story!


    The blackhawks has a similar story with an emergency goalie from the suburbs who helped win a game.
    Way back in the day, like late 50's to early 60's one of my dad's friends ended up playing against Montreal as the emergency goalie...I think it might have been for the Blackhawks too, I'm pretty sure it was either Chicago or Detroit.  At the time, teams only dressed 1 goalie and each arena had to provide a "neutral" 3rd goalie that could potentially play for either team.
    Hatorian
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