Episode 6 was fantastic. I'm really interested in what they didn't tell Lilly, trouble for sure. I love how slow yet tense this show is. This is best series on TV right now.
Episode 6 was fantastic. I'm really interested in what they didn't tell Lilly, trouble for sure. I love how slow yet tense this show is. This is best series on TV right now.
It really is. It almost fills the Mr Robot sized hole in my heart.
Only problem with the show is you have to be careful to not look away for more than 15-20 minutes or you might miss something.
I don't have any problems with the pace. I think it actually adds to the mood of the show. The long silences and pauses really say more than action or dialogue for me.
I haven't had any issues with the pacing either, I've been gripped almost all the way through every episode. The way it's shot and the imagery are so beautiful that it never felt boring to me, especially inside DEVS.
The finale is going to be way out there and I'm excited. This show is probably my favorite exploration of determinism and free will of anything I've seen. I love the way it dwells just enough on the philosophy and challenges of the Devs system for what it means to the characters who work on it while hand waving away the stuff that isn't interesting or relevant or possible and just says "eh, quantum computing or whatever" so you don't have to think about it. Really couldn't recommend it enough to anyone interested in the intersection of philosophy and tech.
If I wasnt on mobile I'd write a long post with my thoughts. I watched episode 7 the other night and was blown away. There is so much going on with this show. The finale should be crazy.
I'm definetly off team Forest and Katie. They either believe there is nothing they could possibly do to change the future, or are as cold blooded as any villain I've seen in a show. Must be ice water in their veins to go around acting like they do. I hope Lilly brings everything crashing down.
Depending on the finale this show might land in my top five of all time. Can't wait.
I give this show a lot of credit. Bringing in huge ideas of determinism, quantum physics, and free will and still completely blindsiding me with that more mundane twist. Should have known there was more to Ser Hugh of the Vale.
Seriously. I know it's not helpful but I couldn't help but feel like the conversations they've been having on Westworld would have been so much more interesting with this show regardless of if they like it as much as a TV show.
scene where Stewart starts broadcasting the room he and his fellow techs are sitting in a few seconds into its future. I get everyone is shocked to see that happening, but you're telling me no one would try and focus and stop themselves from doing what they see themselves do two seconds in the future just to see if they could? That's the real question I have. If you try to change your future, can you? Seeing someone try and repeatedly fail to do that would have been even more unsettling, I think.
And maybe that's what Lily is about to do. She's not going to end the universe or fundamentally upset its laws. All she's really going to do is expose the machine's one flaw. If I understand it right, doesn't it predict the future/show the past of our universe by using the future/past of however many other universes and compiling enough of them until it can display what is essentially a carbon copy of our universe? So, in theory, if Lily or anyone else pulls an Avenger: Infinity War/Endgame and causes an event that only happens in one universe, this one, the machine wouldn't be able to see that because it happens in no other universe and thus the machine has nothing to draw on. And without that information for that instant, maybe the machine malfunctions and shuts down.
My only issue with the last episode is that scene where Stewart starts broadcasting the room he and his fellow techs are sitting in a few seconds into its future. I get everyone is shocked to see that happening, but you're telling me no one would try and focus and stop themselves from doing what they see themselves do two seconds in the future just to see if they could? That's the real question I have. If you try to change your future, can you? Seeing someone try and repeatedly fail to do that would have been even more unsettling, I think.
Oh man that's the whole point! Maybe we should make a spoiler thread or have we already talked about enough that could be considered spoilers in this one?
[...] you're telling me no one would try and focus and stop themselves from doing what they see themselves do two seconds in the future just to see if they could? [...]
[...] If I understand it right, doesn't it predict the future/show the past of our universe by using the future/past of however many other universes and compiling enough of them until it can display what is essentially a carbon copy of our universe? [...]
I've only watched each episode once but my understanding is that the version we saw is a universe among many where the group wasn't able to stop themselves from performing the same actions. We didn't see what happened in any other universe.
I don't think the show has explained how/why which universe to show is selected. ETA: there's a whole other show possible where they go mine alternate universes for all the music written by various songwriters when they formed slightly/very different bands, find scientific/medical breakthrough discoveries, etc. etc.
OK. I really like Devs. I looked forward to it every Thursday morning. However, the only real but huge issue I had with the series is Lily. I never bought her arc. There was nothing to inform us that she had the strength or fortitude to stand up against powers well beyond her. Also the actress kind of sucked.
OK. I really like Devs. I looked forward to it every Thursday morning. However, the only real but huge issue I had with the series is Lily. I never bought her arc. There was nothing to inform us that she had the strength or fortitude to stand up against powers well beyond her. Also the actress kind of sucked.
Lilly and Jamie are by far the weakest parts of the show. I don't really get the point of the spy drama stuff or really Jamie as a character other than as the butt of some good jokes on The Watch podcast.
However, the only real but huge issue I had with the series is Lily. I never bought her arc. There was nothing to inform us that she had the strength or fortitude to stand up against powers well beyond her.
IDK, I've known 3-4 highly-driven Asian women in tech so that Lily just seemed to be of that type.
Devs was kind of cruel to actors as they couldn't rely on lots of dialogue or actions in a scene.
However, the only real but huge issue I had with the series is Lily. I never bought her arc. There was nothing to inform us that she had the strength or fortitude to stand up against powers well beyond her.
IDK, I've known 3-4 highly-driven Asian women in tech so that Lily just seemed to be of that type.
Devs was kind of cruel to actors as they couldn't rely on lots of dialogue or actions in a scene.
I don't think there was anything unrealistic about her or wrong with the performance. It's just that the world of the Devs project and the discussions around and progress of the machine are so much more interesting than the spy drama aspect of Lily's story and they don't really connect in any kind of satisfying way.
The finale was great. I think this show is at least on par with his movies and I'll be thinking about it for a long time.
So in Devs, she wipes some random phone so she can entirely restore her dead BF’s phone from an online backup. Ok. She finds a password protected app on the restored phone and 3 wrong pw guesses and it will wipe the entire phone. Which would be horrible because it’s not like she has a backup handy, oh, wait....
Seriously. I know it's not helpful but I couldn't help but feel like the conversations they've been having on Westworld would have been so much more interesting with this show regardless of if they like it as much as a TV show.
I'm looking forward to when @Jim and @A_Ron_Hubbard circle back to DEVS after West World wraps up. I completely understand why they don't want to digest both shows simultaneously.
That said, WW and Devs are completely different beasts. WW relies on confusion for confusion's sake, which I am done with - just can't finish season 3.
With Devs, there is none of that cute confuscation. The narrative is easy to follow, but the philosophical implications and theoritical tech-holes it dives into are mindfucks. AND it presents characters and arcs you actually give a shit about. It's a superbly done series that towers over West World like a giant child statue in terms of depth and watchability.
Also, I would not advise (or would I) watching those final two episodes after smoking a joint. Hoo boy - that was interesting.
Despite the slowness, I was enjoying the show until the ending, which had almost exactly the same "isn't that nice" unrealistically happy ending of Westworld season 2. Lily and Forest leave their physical bodies behind and have their minds uploaded into a simulation where they can be with their loved ones. There was nothing in the Devs project I recall that prepared me for this technology. At least in Westworld it was just a reasonable if goofy application of their known technology.
It seems odd that 19-year old wonder kid “solves” the problem of the thing by using multiple universes, then gets fired and idea is rejected, then, behind boss’s back the other devs use the same multiple universe concept to “solve” the problem but they don’t get fired and the idea is cool? I’m confused. Also, if the multiple universes thing is true, then why would Lily ditching the gun “break” the future? Or the machine’s ability to predict the future? Or, a future? It’d just fork off a gun-tossing universe, wouldn’t it? At the end it seems like we’re being told the machine can “predict” or perfectly simulate, what, every universe that was and is and will be? It sure sounded like Lily and Forest have also been dropped into an infinite number of “bad” places. Also, I am guessing the whole “dead mouse” thing was an attempt to scan? and build a simulated simulacra of the mouse if it hadn’t died, as, what, a step to recreating a real living mouse? Which is kinda sorta what happened to Lily and Forest when they died? Or did they just get their in-machine simulations dialed back a bit? Forest doesn’t want “an” Amaya but “the” Amaya until he’s suddenly ok with “an” Amaya? Also, the only thing creepier than the giant statue of dead Amaya is a giant statue of living Amaya?
I dunno. I loved the show but I’m not convinced that it stuck the landing. I am glad the writers pointed out the possibility the plug could get pulled on those happy multiverses at any time. And, pompous poetry spouting guy had to kill both Lily and Forest because “it had to be stopped?” Why? And, clearly it didn’t have to be stopped because it looks like the swept up the broken glass, installed a plastic-walled bridge instead of that antigravity elevator, and everything was fine? The more I think about his the ending the less satisfied I become.
manhattnik said: 'Also, I am guessing the whole “dead mouse” thing was an attempt to scan? and build a simulated simulacra of the mouse if it hadn’t died, as, what, a step to recreating a real living mouse? Which is kinda sorta what happened to Lily and Forest when they died?'
Fair enough; perhaps I missed a line of dialogue.
'Or did they just get their in-machine simulations dialed back a bit?'
They had the memory of what had happened but their consciousnesses were put in their bodies present earlier in the timeline...forget it, the closer I look at the ending the harder it is to make sense of or care.
I'm gonna watch this show, but I'm also gonna fucking kill someone for how unnecessarily slow the pilot was. Alex Garland obviously admires Tarkovsky, but Tarkovsky is contemplative not empty.
And I probably just need to watch more Tarkovsky, because I'm getting tired of tech being the only entry point to philosophical inquisition. Jesus, what did anyone do before computers!
I tried getting into the first episode but just couldn't. I did appreciate the UC Santa Cruz setting though (even though they're not saying it's UCSC).
So is this show like Succession and it gets good on episode 4, or something? There's been like 10 minutes I've enjoyed, total, in the first 2 episodes. When does it get good, or am I supposed to enjoy this as-is?
@ken hale Did it grow on you? I too am finding aspects to be ridiculous, but I think it's because I'm bored.
Comments
It really is. It almost fills the Mr Robot sized hole in my heart.
I'm definetly off team Forest and Katie. They either believe there is nothing they could possibly do to change the future, or are as cold blooded as any villain I've seen in a show. Must be ice water in their veins to go around acting like they do. I hope Lilly brings everything crashing down.
Depending on the finale this show might land in my top five of all time. Can't wait.
Seriously. I know it's not helpful but I couldn't help but feel like the conversations they've been having on Westworld would have been so much more interesting with this show regardless of if they like it as much as a TV show.
And maybe that's what Lily is about to do. She's not going to end the universe or fundamentally upset its laws. All she's really going to do is expose the machine's one flaw. If I understand it right, doesn't it predict the future/show the past of our universe by using the future/past of however many other universes and compiling enough of them until it can display what is essentially a carbon copy of our universe? So, in theory, if Lily or anyone else pulls an Avenger: Infinity War/Endgame and causes an event that only happens in one universe, this one, the machine wouldn't be able to see that because it happens in no other universe and thus the machine has nothing to draw on. And without that information for that instant, maybe the machine malfunctions and shuts down.
That's my prediction, anyway.
Oh man that's the whole point! Maybe we should make a spoiler thread or have we already talked about enough that could be considered spoilers in this one?
Lilly and Jamie are by far the weakest parts of the show. I don't really get the point of the spy drama stuff or really Jamie as a character other than as the butt of some good jokes on The Watch podcast.
That said, WW and Devs are completely different beasts. WW relies on confusion for confusion's sake, which I am done with - just can't finish season 3.
With Devs, there is none of that cute confuscation. The narrative is easy to follow, but the philosophical implications and theoritical tech-holes it dives into are mindfucks. AND it presents characters and arcs you actually give a shit about. It's a superbly done series that towers over West World like a giant child statue in terms of depth and watchability.
Also, I would not advise (or would I) watching those final two episodes after smoking a joint. Hoo boy - that was interesting.
Despite the slowness, I was enjoying the show until the ending, which had almost exactly the same "isn't that nice" unrealistically happy ending of Westworld season 2. Lily and Forest leave their physical bodies behind and have their minds uploaded into a simulation where they can be with their loved ones. There was nothing in the Devs project I recall that prepared me for this technology. At least in Westworld it was just a reasonable if goofy application of their known technology.
And, pompous poetry spouting guy had to kill both Lily and Forest because “it had to be stopped?” Why? And, clearly it didn’t have to be stopped because it looks like the swept up the broken glass, installed a plastic-walled bridge instead of that antigravity elevator, and everything was fine?
The more I think about his the ending the less satisfied I become.
manhattnik said: 'Also, I am guessing the whole “dead mouse” thing was an attempt to scan? and build a simulated simulacra of the mouse if it hadn’t died, as, what, a step to recreating a real living mouse? Which is kinda sorta what happened to Lily and Forest when they died?'
Fair enough; perhaps I missed a line of dialogue.
'Or did they just get their in-machine simulations dialed back a bit?'
They had the memory of what had happened but their consciousnesses were put in their bodies present earlier in the timeline...forget it, the closer I look at the ending the harder it is to make sense of or care.
And I probably just need to watch more Tarkovsky, because I'm getting tired of tech being the only entry point to philosophical inquisition. Jesus, what did anyone do before computers!
Oh is boring not your thing?
@ken hale Did it grow on you? I too am finding aspects to be ridiculous, but I think it's because I'm bored.
Yeah, I think I'm out then. Thanks for letting me know. The only bad news is watching a show you don't enjoy!