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  • DeeDee Adelaide
    Good.
    hisdudeness915ChinaskiBloodyTacocdriveMurderbearasmallcatblue_sleeveaki
  • Thankfully Hollywood is now safe from Gina Carano. 
  • JoshuaHeterJoshuaHeter Omaha, NE
    edited February 11
    Dee said:
    Good.
    Maybe, but it seems (to me) that it is much too early to make this determination. Even if an idea (or the expression of it) is harmful, it doesn't follow that any and all methods of suppressing that idea (or the expression of it) is justified or delivers a benefit that outweighs the harm of the idea (or the expression of it). 

    As far as I can tell, there have been no demonstrable, measurable positive outcomes based on the prevalence of these types of firings in the past 1/2 decade or so. 

    rhcoop
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    edited February 11
    She has a history of shitty behaviour on social media and now she’s comparing being called out for her shitty racist/far right opinions to the Holocaust. But sure, let’s give her yet another chance. 

    Actions have consequences. Employers have rules about what you can and can’t say on social media. She thought she was being clever. I’d say lesson learned, but her kind never learns lessons. They just becoming whinging talking heads on Fox. 
    CretanBullMurderbearGiovannihisdudeness915asmallcatbizmarkiefaderblue_sleeveakiMarciHollyoak
  • Dee said:
    She has a history of shitty behaviour on social media and now she’s comparing being called out for her shitty racist/far right opinions to the Holocaust. But sure, let’s give her yet another chance. 

    Actions have consequences. Employers have rules about what you can and can’t say on social media. She thought she was being clever. I’d say lesson learned, but her kind never learns lessons. They just becoming whinging talking heads on Fox. 

    cdriveDeeMurderbearasmallcatblue_sleeveaki
    100.png 61.1K
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    The part about her mocking pronouns was interesting with the news today that Pedro Pascal celebrated his sister recently coming out as transgender. He’s a gem. She’s a phlegm. 
    CretanBullDeeasmallcatblue_sleeveMarci
  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto
    edited February 11
    The people who brought us McCarthyism, book burning, mass boycotts, murdering abortion doctors, enshrining Christianity in government policy and public life, suppressed anything critical of America in the name of patriotism (Phil Donohue and the Dixie Chicks lost their careers for questioning the Iraq War)...destroying people who literally did nothing wrong are suddenly obsessed with the nonsensical idea of 'cancel culture' because they're finally being held accountable for the rotten shit they actually say and do.
    DeecdriveGiovanniasmallcatMarci
  • I think we're going to keep seeing companies acting more swiftly to clean house when people out themselves as bigots as a sort of reaction to 1/6 and the festering of intolerance that has been allowed in American politics. I'm not versed on what she has expressed, so I can't speak to how warranted this was.  I am torn between thinking it's good to see companies like Disney act quickly to root out the rot (so to speak) and thinking that it just adds to the persecution complex the American right has.  Deplatforming seems to have worked to some degree in lowering the temperature, at least in the short term.  I'm concerned that the persecution complex is fostering more radicalization, and it is occurring in less public places than before.  I'm not convinced, but I'm inclined to think that erring towards deplatforming/"cancelling" is better than allowing the radicalism to spread unchecked as it has for the last hot minute. 

    One thing I'm tired of hearing though is people who claim their bigotry and intolerance is political opinion. It's not. We can disagree on how the government should allocate resources, and whether a particular piece of legislation will lead to a better world.  We can't disagree on treating other humans as people.  You aren't entitled to your own facts.  

    Now please, go on national news and tall about how you are being silenced. 
    DeecdriveCretanBullGiovanniAlkaid13ray_x03hisdudeness915bizmarkiefaderBenjluzaniaand 2 others.
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    cdrive said:
    The part about her mocking pronouns was interesting with the news today that Pedro Pascal celebrated his sister recently coming out as transgender. He’s a gem. She’s a phlegm. 
    She did actually apologise for that, allegedly after Pedro Pascal spoke to her about it. So that’s pretty much the one thing I’d let slide with her, unless she said more shit about it since. 
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    Dee said:
    cdrive said:
    The part about her mocking pronouns was interesting with the news today that Pedro Pascal celebrated his sister recently coming out as transgender. He’s a gem. She’s a phlegm. 
    She did actually apologise for that, allegedly after Pedro Pascal spoke to her about it. So that’s pretty much the one thing I’d let slide with her, unless she said more shit about it since. 
    Yeh she fessed up for that one. Just thought it was interesting like Pedro probably had to have coffee with her and kinda walk her through it from his own life and family. 
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    I think we're going to keep seeing companies acting more swiftly to clean house when people out themselves as bigots as a sort of reaction to 1/6 and the festering of intolerance that has been allowed in American politics. I'm not versed on what she has expressed, so I can't speak to how warranted this was.  I am torn between thinking it's good to see companies like Disney act quickly to root out the rot (so to speak) and thinking that it just adds to the persecution complex the American right has.  Deplatforming seems to have worked to some degree in lowering the temperature, at least in the short term.  I'm concerned that the persecution complex is fostering more radicalization, and it is occurring in less public places than before.  I'm not convinced, but I'm inclined to think that erring towards deplatforming/"cancelling" is better than allowing the radicalism to spread unchecked as it has for the last hot minute. 

    One thing I'm tired of hearing though is people who claim their bigotry and intolerance is political opinion. It's not. We can disagree on how the government should allocate resources, and whether a particular piece of legislation will lead to a better world.  We can't disagree on treating other humans as people.  You aren't entitled to your own facts.  

    Now please, go on national news and tall about how you are being silenced. 
    Spot on.



    CretanBullGiovanniAlkaid13asmallcatJoshTheBlackDashEngineShum
  • Dee said:
    Good.
    Maybe, but it seems (to me) that it is much too early to make this determination. Even if an idea (or the expression of it) is harmful, it doesn't follow that any and all methods of suppressing that idea (or the expression of it) is justified or delivers a benefit that outweighs the harm of the idea (or the expression of it). 

    As far as I can tell, there have been no demonstrable, measurable positive outcomes based on the prevalence of these types of firings in the past 1/2 decade or so. 

    I mean, shitty people facing consequences is a pretty positive outcome IMO. 

    Also, she fucking said that being, at worst, fired from your job for being a Trump supporter in the US was JUST AS BAD AS WHAT HAPPENED TO THE JEWS IN NAZI GERMANY. She literally asked "how is that any different" about these two situations. Are you fucking kidding me? Too early to make this determination? There are like 5 things you can say that will immediately get you shitcanned from any public facing job, and downplaying the holocaust is one of them. It's not hard to learn this stuff. She knew it was wrong, and did it anyway. Now she gets to face the music. Boo fucking hoo. Nothing of value was lost. 
    DeeGiovanniMarciHollyoakTravis
  • Hopefully this teaches everyone to only espouse accepted viewpoints and opinions. 

  • edited February 11
    Peeps said:
    Hopefully this teaches everyone to only espouse accepted viewpoints and opinions. 

    So I suppose you think there's nothing anyone can say that should get them fired from a job?

    Edited to be less snarky. 
  • Peeps said:
    Hopefully this teaches everyone to only espouse accepted viewpoints and opinions. 

    I know this is sarcastic, but let me respond as though it were not:

    If only it were that easy!  Imagine if we could rid the world of hatred and bigotry just by firing a few celebrities who expressed bigotry!
    asmallcatCory
  • calebthrowercalebthrower South Carolina
    Peeps said:
    Hopefully this teaches everyone to only espouse accepted viewpoints and opinions. 

    Freedom of speech doesn't equal freedom from consequences of that speech
    DeeTravis
  • Peeps said:
    Hopefully this teaches everyone to only espouse accepted viewpoints and opinions. 

    Freedom of speech doesn't equal freedom from consequences of that speech

    Did my post seem to indicate that I didn't think that was the case?

    To be clear, I don't care about Gina Carano. She is a largely forgettable actress. Disney can hire and fire whoever they want. The larger idea that only people who are "on the right side of history" are employable, though, is more than a little concerning. 

    rhcoop
  • calebthrowercalebthrower South Carolina
    edited February 11
    Peeps said:
    Peeps said:
    Hopefully this teaches everyone to only espouse accepted viewpoints and opinions. 

    Freedom of speech doesn't equal freedom from consequences of that speech

    Did my post seem to indicate that I didn't think that was the case?

    To be clear, I don't care about Gina Carano. She is a largely forgettable actress. Disney can hire and fire whoever they want. The larger idea that only people who are "on the right side of history" are employable, though, is more than a little concerning. 

    To be honest, based on your response above as it is, does come off as a bit of a defense of Carano and a passing judgment on Disney for this. More explanation on your part or a /s if you are being sarcastic would have been helpful. In my opinion, I don't think Disney/LucasFilms give a crap about what Gina believes. They simply viewed this as an issue they didn't want to deal with and could cost them dollars in the future. I don't think this has any indication of Disney trying to employ people in the right side of history. There job is to make money, and they felt this situation would cost them mouse bucks. If you think Disney is making a moral statement, until they actually do, I think that says more about your personal beliefs than anything else. Now of course, if a statement is released going in detail that says she was fired (looks like her contract was not renewed)for this specific thing and they don't stand for that, then the company's moral compass can be judged (and maybe they have and I just haven't read it).  I do apologize if I misread your initial comment. 

    Edit: Also, I am a big defender of free speech. I believe that, in general, people should be able to speak their minds (even if I think what they say is bullshit). This is one of my favorite things I have ever heard Dan Carlin say on his Common Sense show. However, I will  also defend a private company's right to disassociate themselves from an employee because of what they say (for moral or financial reasons). Nobody took her freedom of speech away. Her employer just didn't want to deal with it

    Edit #2: So it does look like a statement was released by a Lucasfilm spokesperson.... "Gina Carano is not currently employed by Lucasfilm and there are no plans for her to be in the future. Nevertheless, her social media posts denigrating people based on their cultural and religious identities are abhorrent and unacceptable.” 
    Cory
  • I agree with the general sentiment that we need to differentiate between the legal right to free speech in terms of freedom from government interference with the general concept of free speech being a good public value to adhere to more broadly.  The larger social value of free speech still does not require us to tolerate everything, and I think employers should enjoy some latitude in whom them employ, but that shouldn't be a blanket endorsement of it being a free for all. 

    I think with Carano's comments she's not talking about harmless public policy, however.  Her comments do denigrate people she has/does/could work with, so Disney or any employer could make a good argument for her creating a hostile work environment.  If a company was firing someone for general statements without a direct line to harm to others I would have more of a problem with a company taking action based on that speech, though its unclear what the correct response would be other than social push back on the company or boycotts of their products. 
    JoshTheBlack
  • Teresa from ConcordTeresa from Concord Concord, California
    What I find most interesting - Pedro took the time to educate her and not only did she shift her thinking but apologized. I think that is the lesson. Because it’s obvious when you pile hate on hate the outcome is digging in deeper, learning nothing, and changing nothing. 
    JoshTheBlack
  • edited February 11
    What I find most interesting - Pedro took the time to educate her and not only did she shift her thinking but apologized. I think that is the lesson. Because it’s obvious when you pile hate on hate the outcome is digging in deeper, learning nothing, and changing nothing. 

    Yeah, on the trans issue she showed healthy progress that should be encouraged, I agree.  How to square that with her doubling down on Holocaust comments remains tough.
    asmallcat

  • Edit #2: So it does look like a statement was released by a Lucasfilm spokesperson.... "Gina Carano is not currently employed by Lucasfilm and there are no plans for her to be in the future. Nevertheless, her social media posts denigrating people based on their cultural and religious identities are abhorrent and unacceptable.” 
    So she wasn't even fired they just didn't sign a new contract with her. Which happens all the time. 


  • calebthrowercalebthrower South Carolina
    asmallcat said:

    Edit #2: So it does look like a statement was released by a Lucasfilm spokesperson.... "Gina Carano is not currently employed by Lucasfilm and there are no plans for her to be in the future. Nevertheless, her social media posts denigrating people based on their cultural and religious identities are abhorrent and unacceptable.” 
    So she wasn't even fired they just didn't sign a new contract with her. Which happens all the time. 


    You are totally right! There is a difference to be made there. I wonder what Lucasfilm would have done had she been in the middle of an existing contract. I suspect the outcome would have been the same
  • asmallcat said:

    Edit #2: So it does look like a statement was released by a Lucasfilm spokesperson.... "Gina Carano is not currently employed by Lucasfilm and there are no plans for her to be in the future. Nevertheless, her social media posts denigrating people based on their cultural and religious identities are abhorrent and unacceptable.” 
    So she wasn't even fired they just didn't sign a new contract with her. Which happens all the time. 


    You are totally right! There is a difference to be made there. I wonder what Lucasfilm would have done had she been in the middle of an existing contract. I suspect the outcome would have been the same
    She'd been saying stuff for a long time and could have fired her earlier...I think they intentionally decided to let it play out as it did.  Having said that, it was widely rumoured (maybe even reported?) that she was going to get her own spin-off series and they put a stop to that too.

  • On the plus side she can now follow the career path of that guy from Hercules - making weird right-wing and pro-biblical movies that no one outside that particular bubble ever see. 
    CretanBullhisdudeness915
  • Peeps said:
    Peeps said:
    Hopefully this teaches everyone to only espouse accepted viewpoints and opinions. 

    Freedom of speech doesn't equal freedom from consequences of that speech

    Did my post seem to indicate that I didn't think that was the case?

    To be clear, I don't care about Gina Carano. She is a largely forgettable actress. Disney can hire and fire whoever they want. The larger idea that only people who are "on the right side of history" are employable, though, is more than a little concerning. 

    This is a false narrative that stems from the right-wing's obsession with being persecuted.  When has it ever been acceptable for a company that has employees that either deal directly with the public or represent the company in a public way to project abhorrent views?  If you owned a small business, say a fish & chip shop or something, would you hire someone who had a swastika tattoo to work your front counter?  You probably wouldn't, but if you did you'd at least tell that person to cover it up and wear long sleeves if you did.  Whether she likes it or not, Gina Carano is very strongly associated with Disney - the things that she says and does reflects on them, makes them subject to boycotts etc.  They effectively asked her to 'wear long sleeves' and she chose not to.  If your fish and chip shop employee had an offensive tattoo worked in the kitchen out of public view, maybe you wouldn't care.  If Carano was an office worker at Disney, maybe they wouldn't care.  But when you become a recognizable representative of a business, it comes with a level of responsibility.
    asmallcatDeeJoshTheBlackAlkaid13akicalebthrowermharmlessMurderbearhisdudeness915
  • calebthrowercalebthrower South Carolina
    edited February 12
    Also my new favorite response when people cry #CancelCulture when it doesn't apply is to respond with #ConsequenceCulture. I can't take credit, saw it on an article about this topic. People are crying foul because we as a society are beginning to hold people accountable for their actions like never before and it's about damn time. 
    DeemharmlessMurderbearJoshTheBlack
  • She was given such a long leash by Disney. What an idiot. 

    First Can Anvar, now Gina. Dammit you people! Why can't they just play nice?
  • She was given such a long leash by Disney. What an idiot. 

    First Can Anvar, now Gina. Dammit you people! Why can't they just play nice?
    Yeah apparently just being a dumpster fire of a person privately is too much to ask. 

  • Alkaid13Alkaid13 Georgia
    edited February 11
    I am torn between thinking it's good to see companies like Disney act quickly to root out the rot (so to speak) and thinking that it just adds to the persecution complex the American right has.  Deplatforming seems to have worked to some degree in lowering the temperature, at least in the short term.  I'm concerned that the persecution complex is fostering more radicalization, and it is occurring in less public places than before.  I'm not convinced, but I'm inclined to think that erring towards deplatforming/"cancelling" is better than allowing the radicalism to spread unchecked as it has for the last hot minute. 
    I think on balance deplatforming extremist and truly odious rhetoric is still better than allowing it to fester. There were always be conspiracists who will always seek out like-minded kooks no matter how hard you make it to find them, but it’s also a lot less concerning if they’re all confined to some back water part of the net where they have no one to rail at but each other for being not sufficiently crazy enough instead being allowed free reign to the most popular avenues of social media to further red pill your aunt or neighbor or whatever who was just browsing for some recipe and wound up with a face full of flat-earth. The FBI can still get an inside link to Parler or wherever these losers end up slinking to if they really want to keep tabs on them. Also we learned from 1/6 that a lot of higher ups in fact already knew what was being planned that day and just didn’t take it seriously enough. If they want to start taking it seriously they’ll do it. 

    I think the fact that we haven’t had large scale insurrections of the US government based purely on lies and conspiracy tells me that allowing these sorts of lies to spread and not cracking down on them more harshly has created this much more widespread movement of kooks that has much more power than it did years ago. If they can’t recruit more people and can’t spread their lies as easily the movement will lose steam. 
    JoshTheBlack
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