606 - "Blood of My Blood" - SPOILER THREAD!!

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  • TheEconomistTheEconomist Chattanooga, TN
    @voodoorat

    I don't know if Dany has any particular thoughts on the Red Preists and their ideas to burn thousands. Although her appointed advisor Tyrion seems ambivalent towards it. But I can see her being on board bc if a religion that seems to have genuine magical power says you're the savior why not accept the mantle.
    Elisa
  • Weird, fever-fueled thought:

    What if Waif does kill Arya, she wants it so bad for some reason.

    She called Arya "Lady Stark," what if she covers that position for her own nebulous ends? She wants Arya's face for some mission of her own.

    She heads to Westeros to put whatever plan in motion. Jon and Sansa trust her. She knows everything Arya would.

    She runs into Nymeria, who obviously isn't fooled.

    Nymeria rips Waif's throat out, revealing that she wasn't Arya.

    Just a crazy thought.
    TheEconomistmanhattnikElisaMurderbear
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY

    @pavlovsbell @dochielomn

    I thought it would be poetic if Dany had the Dothraki take the Wise, Good, and Great Masters of the slave cities into slavery and settle that thing once and for all. Also maybe as promised payment for service for those less awe inspired. 

    Poetic, yes. Also extremely hypocritical for someone diametrically opposed to slavery. But with Dany's interpretation of justice, who knows?
  • TheEconomistTheEconomist Chattanooga, TN

    @pavlovsbell @dochielomn

    I thought it would be poetic if Dany had the Dothraki take the Wise, Good, and Great Masters of the slave cities into slavery and settle that thing once and for all. Also maybe as promised payment for service for those less awe inspired. 

    Poetic, yes. Also extremely hypocritical for someone diametrically opposed to slavery. But with Dany's interpretation of justice, who knows?


    It may be too full dragon for her to do that right away but say if she learns her ships are burned since she's left maybe that's one more step to Mad Queen and since the Sons of the Harpy did try very hard to kill her she's had enough playing nice and just. Her response when returning will be quite interesting to see.
    pavlovsbellmanhattnikElisa
  • edited May 2016

    I must be the only person that thought this episode was poor.

    I thought it was a good episode, but should have been in a different order. I wish we could get longer stretches of storylines instead of an obligatory 5-10 minute glimpse.
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    True, but given that the slavers would like nothing more than for Dany to either die or pack up and leave already, logic dictates why on earth would they burn those ships? Especially when they offered the ships to Dany for that very reason. My money is on Euron, but of course Dany is completely unaware of his existence. 
    steph_bElisa
  • @Muyiwa I don't know if I necessarily buy into the "Dany is the villain"* thing or that she will be Aerys 2.0, but she does embrace the false dichotomy of Mysa / Conqueror, and I found her recycled Drogo speech disturbing. "Tear down the stone houses" and all that. What if Jon had treatied with the Wildlings way back when and promised them that they could tear apart the North provided they worshipped him? Dany is all "I take what is mine," and her dragons will be key in fighting the White Walkers, but what about after that? So far, I see her as a "savior" and conqueror but not a ruler. 


    *Although, one thing that has always bothered me about Dany is that she takes too much pleasure (in the show, at least) in raining down death and destruction on her enemies. The look of satisfaction or triumph on her face worries me. It's something I would never expect to see from Jon, Davos, Tyrion, etc. but would absolutely expect from Ramsay and Cersei. 
    Reading the books, I always felt that she was an antagonist. One to be afraid of, rather than rooting for her which is how the show portrays her.
    manhattniksteph_bElisaSchrodingersWight
  • True, but given that the slavers would like nothing more than for Dany to either die or pack up and leave already, logic dictates why on earth would they burn those ships? Especially when they offered the ships to Dany for that very reason. My money is on Euron, but of course Dany is completely unaware of his existence. 

    I don't see Euron burning her ships. Why would he do that if he doesn't already have ships of his own? As others have pointed out, it should take years to build his 1,000 ships. If he's such a naval master and pays the iron price, then wouldn't he have just taken them? Hopefully it has an acceptable resolution, but as of now it seems to be a mystery. It just doesn't add up yet.
    TheEconomist
  • Ajas said:

    Btw, in the "scenes from next episode" they plainly show Sansa and Jon treating with the House of Mormont  (by the Bear sigil)... I assume Jon is wearing Longclaw at his hilt, that should be a big fucking deal.


    So I read up on the Mormont lineage, since Jeor is dead and Jorah is exiled.  Jeor had/has a sister, Maege, who would be head Bear in Charge... in the show she is disappeared having fought alongside Robb, but possibly alive.  In the books she was sent away before the Red Wedding to the Neck.  Next in line would be the 10-year old daughter Lyanna, who was referenced in Season 5 via a letter Stannis showed Jon that said the Mormonts recognize no king but the King in the North.

    So with whomever Sansa is treating at Bear Island is very important... Maege would be a direct link to either/both ZombieCat and Howland Reed  The other Sigil shown was a white glove on red, House Glover.. another Stark loyalist.  Jon is playing Star Control 2, just like I said a few weeks ago.
    ...and Maege, in the books, supposedly carries a copy of Rob's will.  I am really looking forward to the Mormonts reactions to Jon having Longclaw.

    Also, what letter is Sansa, I assume, is writing?  The one where the Stark sigil is stamped on the wax seal?  From the size of it, it looks like a Raven will be delivering it.



    Wow, I have no idea of the Mormonts, zombiecat, long claw or house glover. I'm going to have to do some research of my own! As a non book reader, think I'll be okay with GOT wikia and westeros.com?
  • trippy said:

    I'm going to go with the idea that Margery will be less than a true convert.  And That the high sparrow has miscalculated somewhat.  Tommen's brain will basically begin to leak out his ears due to the twisting it will endure from attempted brainwashing from the high sparrow, and on another end, Margery,  and on a third end, Cersei.   He's going to be brain dead.

    Maybe Bran can show up to whisper a few sweet words in his ear as well? That could only help.
    Elisa
  • kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.
    In the Aria vs The Waif battle I think ari is gonna do her water dancing technique to beat her, or she'll do the old Ali rope a dope.
  • manhattnikmanhattnik the big apple
    edited May 2016
    Didn't we see Danys Dothraki getting very skeptical very quickly after she did her "wait here" disappearing act? She may already have been their titular ruler then, but her appearance on Drogon and her Khal-Drogoish speech cemented her rule. Also, she is speaking of blood, ruin and plunder because that's what the Dothraki need to hear. They sure wouldn't listen to anything a Jon Snow had to say.

    For all their blather, the Dothraki are fickle, not loyal. And not very bright, as time has shown us. Dany has now demonstrated that she's the biggest badass under heaven and in it. She did the bloodrider thing to ensure she would never be abandoned or betrayed by them again.
  • manhattnikmanhattnik the big apple
    Can we just call Dorne and The Iron Islands the "gas-leak" season and be done with them?
    MelonuskMurderbear
  • Didn't we see Danys Dothraki getting very skeptical very quickly after she did her "wait here" disappearing act? She may already have been their titular ruler then, but her appearance on Drogon and her Khal-Drogoish speech cemented her rule. Also, she is speaking of blood, ruin and plunder because that's what the Dothraki need to hear. They sure wouldn't listen to anything a Jon Snow had to say.

    For all their blather, the Dothraki are fickle, not loyal. And not very bright, as time has shown us. Dany has now demonstrated that she's the biggest badass under heaven and in it. She did the bloodrider thing to ensure she would never be abandoned or betrayed by them again.

    @manhattnik, I don't recall seeing the Dothraki being skeptical.  If I remember correctly, the scene was just Dany riding and talking with Daario and then she told Daario that she'd be right back.  As for the Dothraki being fickle and not loyal, I'll slightly disagree there.  The Dothraki seem to be loyal to power.  If you show you have power, then they'll blindly follow you.  It's when they think they see weakness, then they'll start to challenge for power.  But that's similar behavior to lots of species (including humans, especially with an "alpha type personality").
  • Can we just call Dorne and The Iron Islands the "gas-leak" season and be done with them?
    These two families must still have something significant to offer in the series, although I can't fathom what that would be at this point. I can't believe that all of the sand snake business is all for nothing. If it doesn't lead anywhere then why not just give us the Oberyn vs The Mountain fight and then never mention them again? I think it would be awesome to see a huge naval battle between Euron and Yara. It would be something we haven't really seen yet, and would be a fitting conflict between the two to determine the true ruler of the Iron Born.
    manhattnikElisa
  • I'm not sure if anyone else noticed that the kingsguard that left the (great sept of Baylor?) had the seven pointed star on their breast plates, while Jamie's looked much more Baratheon inspired. They looked like old suits of armor too. Could they be relics of King Baylor's reign?
    Or have they just been that way the whole time...
    manhattnikElisaTheEconomist
  • CobeyCobey Los Angeles
    I wasn't really excited about the Benjen thing. I got kinda hyped for a couple of minutes when I first saw his cat eyes and knew it was him, but for some reason (and for the first time) I started to think "None of this is real so why get excited" and by "real" I mean what will actually happen in the books.

    I've never felt like that before about the show, it's always been a separate entity. I think this feeling of meh stems a little from him explaining how he was stabbed by a white walker and then stabbed by obsidian and I"m just thinking "Chill out and stop explaining, bruh". The more he explains the more I'm like "But why are his hands black? Don't hands turn black from blood pooling in the extremities when you die? His blood didn't have time to pool did it? Wasn't he saved before the magic could take him over?" 

    It just kind of felt like they were shoving Cold Hands and Benjen together just because. 
  • GuyGuy with some Grist for the Mill
    After seeing Loras in the state he was in last episode, Margaery devises a plan to give the HS the power expansion he wants by manipulating Tommen thus winning their release.  The idea here is that offscreen, the HS and Margaery strike a deal if she is able to bring Tommen into the HS's fold, her and Loras will be free to leave.

    The plan is a fairly easy one since Tommen's mush brain is clearly drowning in semen.  When Tommen walks into the alter room to see her, Margaery is sitting on the bench reading the 7 pointed star.  An act meant to solidify the perception she has truly taken on the faith, but it's a simple ruse.  We know it's a ruse because as she begins her speech about caring for the poor only when watched, she picks up the 7PS and carries it with her while talking.  This emphasizes the point she was only reading the 7PS so she could be seen reading the 7PS.

    She goes on to say how the HS is not who we thought he was and she has had a true conversion.  Tommen dutifully follows along as any 14 year old who thinks he may be getting some soon would do.

    The most interesting part of all of this is how it would appear Margaery's and Olenna's plans seem to be at odds.  Olenna tells the obtuse Mace that he, the HS, has won.  It's probably a case where Margaery's only thought was short-term relief for her and Loras while Olenna is playing a longer game.
    MelonuskElisa
  • MuyiwaMuyiwa Ocean, NJ
    edited May 2016
    One thing I'll posit RE:Dany is that a lot of her triumphant moments are based on the rule of cool. Ultimately not a lot happens in her storyline, so these mgrandiose moments and speeches definitely get the blood going.

    Also, whether we as an audience bought it or not, you could definitely see the effect of her speech on the following Dothraki. Those guys were ready to ride across the narrow sea right there and then, with or without ships.
    manhattnik
  • I'm not sure if anyone else noticed that the kingsguard that left the (great sept of Baylor?) had the seven pointed star on their breast plates, while Jamie's looked much more Baratheon inspired. They looked like old suits of armor too. Could they be relics of King Baylor's reign?
    Or have they just been that way the whole time...

    Dammit. Charlie on Emergency Awesome said this already.

  • edited May 2016

    I'm not sure if anyone else noticed that the kingsguard that left the (great sept of Baylor?) had the seven pointed star on their breast plates, while Jamie's looked much more Baratheon inspired. They looked like old suits of armor too. Could they be relics of King Baylor's reign?
    Or have they just been that way the whole time...

    I noticed it, as well, but who were they? Are they the guards that accompanied Tommen to the sept or were they sparrows?

  • I agree that it kind of seemed like Kevan might be influecing Tommen's actions, but I was just thinking about how the decision to kick Jamie out of the Kingsguard effectively disinherited Kevan from being the Lord of Casterly Rock because now Jamie can hold titles and lands. So Whatever Kevan has planned, it must be worth quite a lot. (perhaps it's worth just preventing Jamie and the Tyrell's from murdering his religious fanatic son) 
    Elisa
  • AjasAjas Seattle, WA
    They made a point earlier in the season to show that Qyburn has co-opted Varys's little birds.  Not to mention that ALL of the other Kingsguard were in on The High Sparrow's plan.

    I find it impossible to think that this conspiracy could go down without Qyburn sleuthing it out, which essentially means he was in on it too.  Remember also, Qyburn was the one that HS let in to consult with Cersei last season when she was imprisoned.

    And it was right after Cersei made Qyburn Master of Whispers that the Sparrows took out the High Septon.  It seems more and more that Qyburn and the High Sparrow are working together.
    ElisaTheEconomist
  • This just occurred to me and I know it's waaaay late:

    When Joffrey is having all the gilding and ornaments struck from the iron throne room, and his mother looks upset, it's probably because she was the one who put the lovely vines and other gold Lannister-y stuff everywhere.

    I guaran-damn-tee you it wasn't Robert.

    That was Joffrey foreshadowing how off the rails and out of his mother's control he was going to get.

    Just occurred to me. I've been flirting with a 101• fever. Forgive my lateness.
  • Tom KTom K Fleabottom, NJ

    Minor nitpick but did anyone else think that Walder Fray apparently drank from the fountain of youth since we saw him last. He seemed rather spritely in this scene compared to season 3 Walder

    Perhaps it implies he was playing the Starks by acting as an old befuddled Lord earlier, and this is really who he is. There's that scene that was cut from Season 3 where Tywin is fishing and called out Maestar Pycelle for pulling the same act. Basically, let your enemies underestimate you.Or perhaps he's still on the high cloud of new love with his wife #22 or whatever number she is!

    TheEconomistLady C
  • Tom KTom K Fleabottom, NJ
    LAStark9 said:

    Essentially, Danaerys can give any speech and if they get the timing and music right, I'll get chills even in spite of myself. That being said, the whole exit screen, return with dragon thing seemed really clumsily done to me. So she just has control of her dragons now? Even to the point where Drogon will follow "sit" and "stay" commands in front of a large group of tasty treats (i.e. Dothraki's horses)? What does this say about the likelihood of a horn showing up later on? I thought it was still possible in Euron's plotline but it doesn't seem needed now.

    I haven't seen it mentioned, but I think the location, within sight of the Mother of Mountains, is very important for her speech and it's impact on the Dothraki. I don't get all the hate about her and her speech. Jon Snow's too stupid to think for himself, but very noble, she's a very talented ruler that's ruthless. It's Fire and Ice, is it not? 
    TheEconomist
  • Tom KTom K Fleabottom, NJ

    Some of my thoughts:

    Finally, for Maegery, I felt like she was playing her own game.  I think she clearly decided to use Tommen to help get her out of prison but has her own end game in mind.  It was more like, "let me get out of the dungeon where I can then start talking to people and figure out what my next move should be".

    I think that shot of her unsmiling the minute she hugged Tommen and he could't see her face told you everything she thinks of him. The fact that no one on the Lannister or Tyrell side caught wind of the entire Kings Guard switching over with Tommen to the Faith irks me plot wise. Varys probably knew already!

    And for a second when they cut the scene of Jaime's being stripped of his rank after  Tommen said he would "serve the Kingdom elsewhere", I thought... He's going to have to take the Black! That would be interesting plot, to have him end up Lord Commander #1,000. Oh well ,at least we'll get Bronn back, and hear some cheerful songs of Dornish woman on the march to Riverrun.
  • Dickon Tarley

    Does Dickon's neutrality mean anything important?

    All the speculation I've been reading and hearing indicates that the only concern is Randyll, there's been no mention of Dickon, who was supposed to be the next to get sword.

    Here's the catch:

    Dickon wasn't an ass. He could have been. He wasn't. He didn't defend his brother, but he didn't join in with his father, either. He was neutral, but he could have made the choice to be a bully.

    Dickon is also his mother's son and his sister's brother. Even his correction about the days kill not being cured yet was in a gentle tone, and he didn't challenge Sam's long journey excuse.

    Is there any scenario where Dickon is sent to retrieve the sword, but takes up with his brother instead? What if he lends the strength to Sam's wisdom?

    In Lord of the Rings Boromir was his father's favorite son, and Faramir was bookish and despised. But the brothers had no bitterness towards each other, and loved one another sincerely. Is Dickon Boromir?

    This show doesn't shy away from showing us when people are bullies. There was zero hint of it, Dickon had every opportunity.
    TheEconomist
  • uncle_guncle_g CA, USA
    edited June 2016
    TinFoil alert!!

    1) Next Episode.... what if.....  waif confronts Arya.  Arya kills the crap out of her.  As she's dying, Arya peels off face to reveal Jaq'en.  Waif was getting too worked up to be a full-fledged member and Jaq'en used Arya (probably unwittingly) as instrument to teach waif a lesson.....or waif just out of control...either way.   Arya either credentialled or merely allowed to leave.

    2)  @pavlovsbell called it.  Dany is totally coming over as a villain/heel.  The Targaryen house words are Fire and Blood ... not Liberty and Democracy.  It's for a reason.   She wants to bring the Dothraki and dragons to conquer Westeros?  And then what?  They're going to settle down peaceably??   I think before this is over we'll get a sense of what it was like living under Mad King Aerys's rule.  maybe White Walkers are ultimately force for good to remove Dragon/fire menace?  Ahh but nothing's black /white.  it's all grey.

    3) So Euron wants to build 1000 ships and Daario estimates that Dany would need 1000 ships to cross the Narrow sea....  I guess Yara isn't heading that way?  Perhaps she'll start menacing old town like in the books a detachment did?   

    4)  Anyone else feel like now that we have two known Stark resurrections there might be a third?? (#winkwinknudgenudge)

    5) I know this isnt likely.... and despite the fact that I really want the CCCCLEGANEBOWL!!!!!! to happen, I absolutely Love the thought of High Sparrow and/or Margaery convincing Tommen to champion the Sept in the trial by combat against the Mountain championing Cersei..... 
    pavlovsbellSchrodingersWightElisa
  • uncle_guncle_g CA, USA
    edited June 2016
    In the show, Sam wasn't around to hear about the Valyrian steel killing White Walkers, right?  That shouldn't have been a motivation for him stealing the family sword, right??....Still doubt he heads to Old Town after this... Why would the Citadel accept an overweight, vow-breaking night watchman with a family in tow and a stolen greatsword while being harrowed by a maniacal lord trying to retrieve said sword?  Nothing about it screams discipline.

      I like the idea that he heads back north with the Horn Hill bannermen in pursuit ....but aren't they beholden to the Tyrells?  Shouldn't they all be in Mace Tyrell's squad in front of the sept???   
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