Ben

So the magic ninja who has been training as an Assassin killing the night king isn’t a good pay off? Despite her being given the dagger to do it last season? Or Mel’s prophecy that was given to her in season 2? Or her being trained for it since season one? All the main players played their part, without them all doing what they did, the living would have lost. Honestly how much of this blowback is because it subverted your expectations? 

I don't get all the hate, I thought that was super tense, well constructed (albeit really really hard to see what was going on at times). Is some of the backlash because peoples theories didn't come true? I thought it all tracked well, and I loved the symmetry of Theon dying in the godswood the same way Maester Lewin did. But in no way was that a bad episode of TV.  

I’m really shocked that this episode is hated so much on here, I’ve just rewatched and it was as good the second time around. Sure the ghost thing is bullshit and perhaps the living were perhaps a bit too overwhelmed at times to feasibly survive but all in all I thought everything tracked well and all of it was deserved pay off to characters arcs. 

All the Chickens said:

YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE BUMMED OUT BY DANY. 

That doesnt mean that it's not a well earned character turn that has been established for multiple seasons.

She has done everything that she said she would albeit not in the way people might have expected (the boys included). She was told to be the dragon by Olena 2 or 3 years ago, she could have done this then and it would be as earned as it was now. The shows own prophecy that was shown to her by the warlocks showed her walking through a destroyed city with ash falling. She's burned prisoners of war, fed her rivals to dragons, and threatened more advisors than shes drunk glasses of wine. Also, she's never faced real rejection before and when you pile on the death of two dragons, her surrogate father figure, best friend and the rejection of a lover she snapped. It happens. They even made a movie with similar themes, falling down.    

I like the story they are telling, Dany has done everything she has said she would do and what they have shown as prophecy in the TV show. If you're out I'm sad for you, and I hope you'll go quietly into the night. Its been a wild ride. 

Josh, I totally agree with everything you've just written. One thing that stands out to me massively on this forum is that you can really feel the in group / out group dynamics at play. I write that as someone who's in the out group. The discussion threads are generally good but once they take a turn into a dogpile or shift off topic, it becomes a closed shop. I say this a long term club member and supporter. I'll echo what Josh said  I genuinely want BM to be successful.  I'm a huge fan.  

ken hale said:

Ben said:

The massive pile on from critics and "fans" probably hasn't helped either. I hope him and Rose come out stronger from the other side. 

Boy, I really don't like this take.  Best wishes to the guy, whatever he's going through, but if it's just "hurt feelings from fans who didn't even personally criticize me in their criticism of the show I'm on," then I think he'll be fine.

That's ok mate, I haven't really liked your takes this season either. I will say though that I work with people who experience mental health issues on a daily basis, One of the factors that can manifest with a mental health issue is a feeling of persecution, and lack of validation. This is what I'm referring to, perhaps I should have made that clearer in my initial post. I don't know Kit obviously, but from a distance it looks as though he's put everything he had into something for the last 10 years, its possibly been a core part of his identity, to have that removed and for someone to see the amount of negative feedback (being tagged into memes etc) is enough to push people over the edge. It doesn't matter how much money you have, it can ruin you. 

Mine did too, I don't know why that didn't get me going. It was a super cool visual. My crowd also had big laughs when Thanos had his head cut off. One thing though that I'm confused by is that 5 years passes by the end of the film, but Spider-Man goes back to school with Ned and MJ? Wouldn't they be in University by now? 

The genie is out of the bottle now, it feels to me that the next 4 years is going to see more attacks on democratic processes, with Trump loyalists waging a guerrilla campaign. I hope I’m wrong, but history has lots of examples of exactly this sort of thing happening. Good luck US friends. 

I'm watching it with my partner who liked Ragnarok, but refused to watch any of the other MCU films. She's all in on this series though as they have done a great job in catching people up who never watched endgame. The first episode did so much heavy lifting, but thats turned out great, so good job showrunners!