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  • From EW: Game of Thrones actor says finale twist was George R.R. Martin's idea

    They seemed to suffer from a fear of ruining surprises on the show so they flipped Danny from benevolent queen to genocidal war criminal in a couple of episodes, and Bran from being the TER unable to hold positions of power to the consensus king of the continent in a couple of episodes so as not to “give it away.”

    The books, presuming they get written, will lay a lot more groundwork for these transformations. His shocking surprises are more: SMH of course that is what would happen. Less: Whaaaaaat?!?
  • 806 - The Iron Throne

    awookiee said:
    chrisk said:
    I think the complaints about the North being independent and nobody else are a bit overblown. 

    Theres a a lot of benefit to being part of the Six or Seven Kingdoms. Trade, currency, travel, etc... It’s the same reason countries have joined the EU today.

    You give up some self determination and I suppose you can say they should have debated it more but all these kingdoms have been unified for generations. So being affiliated is the default for everyone already. Sansa’s the only one we know of who’s been making noise about leaving. 

    Also - Master of Whisperers is just the spy chief right? That’s the way I read it. Whatever Bran is capable of, the position needs to exist, no?

    That goes against everything the show has shown us. Robb declaring independence was depicted as a big deal. A big deal that upset not only the Lannisters, but Renly, Stannis and Dany. And then not only do they get independence by just saying so, but the Iron Islands, who have wanted to be independent for just as long, go "you go ahead and do you, we'll stay."
    I 100% understand your argument here as the Iron Islands have pushed for Independence in the show but I want to know how the Iron Islands declares Independence and live on their own without the support of others? Surely in this new Westeros they can't go back to reaving, raping, and pillaging and while it's possible they can survive on fish and food from the sea alone, I highly doubt that's what they want to do. There's tons of benefits being united that I think the Iron Islanders would benefit from.  
    I hope you understand the frustration involved for those of us not willing to fill in the gaps here with so much off-screen head cannon. The Iron Islanders, as presented, would have wanted independence. The Dornish people would also want independence based on their history and culture.

    You can speculate about an economic system of interdependencies and trade incentives, but that’s in your head. The show used to be about precisely these kinds of politics and interplays, with the spectacle largely happening off-screen. This season is about the spectacle with the power dynamics largely offscreen.

    Still a good show, sure, but when you change Mad Men into Jack Ryan you’re appealing to an entirely different fan base.

    If the books are ultimately written, these character pivots (Jamie, Bran, Danny, etc.) won’t be shocking they will have been well founded and documented by dozens of POV chapters. The choice to sacrifice a cohesive plot for gotcha-moments wouldn’t betrays the source material and probably wouldn’t have happened if they were still able to adapt the novels.

    I know the DDs didn’t sign up to do original material, but the lack of self-awareness that caused them to do it anyway without bringing in some heavyweights to do the writing for them resulted in something like Michael Bay being brough in to finish The Wheel Of Time series after Robert Jordan’s death. It’s jarring.
    awookieemajjam0770Giovanniken haleblacksunrise7
  • 806 - The Iron Throne

    Doesn’t this all really come down to some folks saying that it was rushed and so it was disappointing and made them sad and diminished their love of the property, and other folks agreeing that it was rushed but also arguing that it was good enough for them to still love the property?

    I don’t think that there are many folks who are arguing that more time spent bringing the plot to a close wouldn’t have been a good thing. And I think the technical achievements and stunning visuals are largely praised by all (absent the Ep 3 muddiness).

    I think we all have a lot more in common than not. It’s the subjective stuff that people are experiencing differently.
    alexander.klassenblacksunrise7ken haleGiovanniDaveyMacawookieeBroRad33
  • 806 - The Iron Throne

    It was a decent tie-up from a flawed setup.

    Jon killing Danny? Great and ultimately necessary.
    Council instigating a constitutional monarchy? Great.
    Sansa queen in the north? Great.
    Tyrion as Hand and the other small council assignments (including Bronn)? Great.
    Jon joining the Knight’s Watch? WTF is the Knight’s Watch now? Nothing to defend against but still vulnerable from the south? No reason for this to exist and I don’t get why Jon going north of the wall is a good thing or any kind of conclusion.
    Bran as King? Unearned entirely. WTF has Bran been doing since the holding of the door? Was he manipulating everything for his ascension? That’s dark. Was he manipulating everything for the good of the realm? He did a piss poor job then. And who is his successor? That’s always the biggest issue with a consensus ruler, how do you handle the succession? Not even mentioned in passing.
    Drogon flying off? Necessarily convenient.
    Unsullied Sailing of to Naath? Equally convenient, but at least foreshadowed.
    Dothraki? No idea what they did or where they went.
    Surviving Golden Company? Based on the language of the battle of Winterfell 50% must have survived no matter what was shown on screen. Looks like more than 50% of Unsullied survived actually based on that scene with Danny looking over them all.
    Arya heading off to adventure? Fine. WTF was the point of her ability with faces though this season?
  • Why are folks so upset about Jamie?

    If Jamie had Knighted Brienne, not slept with her, and then announced he was going back to King's Landing having fulfilled his obligation to fight the dead with an ensuing argument with Tyrion and Brienne where he explains his obligation or feelings or whatever it was that drove him back, that would have flowed better.

    If they let him leave Winterfell without talking to Danny and she was livid about it, then you could still have the scene with his capture/release outside King's Landing and it would be another betrayal by advisors, and lover presuming Jon would have to okay it, for Danny on her path to madness.

    A lot of the clunky transitions that have folks upset about Ep 5 could probably have been resolved with maybe 30min of additional dialog scenes and you could cut the Bronn stuff (serves no purpose even though I love the character, seems fan-servicey), the Jamie/Brienne bedding (not good for his arc or her arc anyway, seems fan-servicey), the Jamie/Euron "battle" (served no purpose just fry him on the deck of the ship), etc. to fit a better version into 6 episodes anyway.

    The rush is real, but they could have served the story better with better prioritization.