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  • Gina Carano / Disney Star Wars

    It's laughable to me that some people can look at everything that's happened in politics in the last five years, both in America and elsewhere, and be convinced that we're on a slippery slope to some sort of left-wing cancel culture dystopia. Like sure, there was a coup attempt a month ago, whatever, but what we should really be concerned about is a few rich people losing their jobs.
  • Eating Their Own. And their $$$

    Given that a) "You're driving away fans like me with your POLITICS (but I won't say which ones because they would make me look bad)" is one of the most tiresome, pointless complaints on the internet, and b) A.Ron literally created an entire other network where you can debate politics, making it utterly ridiculous for anyone to accuse him of silencing dissenting views, there was never any reason for anyone here to take the OP seriously or in good faith. Cracking some jokes about it is not bullying.

    Don't get me wrong, I'll complain about stan culture and parasocial relationships and fandoms attacking people who criticize their faves all day, because I feel very strongly that those things are some of the biggest contributors to the noxious hellscape that modern internet and social media discourse has become. And this forum is just as susceptible to those flaws as any community of the same size, which is something we should be mindful of! But this isn't that - I don't think turning this specific incident into a referendum on the Bald Move community really makes any sense.
  • The Snyder Cut is coming, and so is the internet

    Hunkulese said:
    The toxic people are just the loudest. What about all the non-toxic people? There are far, far more of them. Should all decisions only consider the toxic parts of communities?

    The best way to deal with toxic people is to ignore them. They shouldn't factor into decision making at all. Most of them are just looking for a negative response anyway. Something positive happening like the Snyder Cut actually coming out isn't actually their goal. They're still going to be toxic everywhere else.
    I'm a little confused by "they're just looking for a negative response". Sure, there are a few who are just there to sow chaos for the sake of it, but at the end of the day toxic people are people - they have wants and interests just like you and I. I think quite a lot of them wanted the Snyder cut to come out, and they just picked the worst way to go about it.

    Except the real problem is that what they're doing isn't the worst way to go about it, if you don't account for morality at all. In fact, it's the most effective way to go about it. The toxic groups, even if they're an extreme minority, play far more of a role than you'd think in bringing movements like these to prominence. Social media itself is set up in such a way as to push the toxic voices to the front. They are what websites will report on when talking about the movement, which will result in an inevitable backlash, and then a backlash to the backlash, and so on, bringing more and more notoriety and attention to the original movement.

    (The worst part of this cycle? There no good way to break it, since suggesting the alternative - where we "just ignore them", and no one writes articles or Tweets or whatever calling these people out - is more or less telling the targets of their harassment that they should just shut up and take it. As you yourself have said, there's no permanent fix for this problem without completely restructuring the way social media works.)

    So in terms of movements like this actually succeeding, you can't write off toxic groups as an insignificant minority. They play an important role, maybe the most important role. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if you wanted the Snyder cut and are happy you're getting it, you are actively benefiting from the work those people did, whether you like it or not.
  • The Snyder Cut is coming, and so is the internet

    Hunkulese said:
    Toxic groups in fandoms aren't whining and shouting to get what they want, they're whining and shouting because they're toxic. There's really not a whole lot anyone can do about them without radical changes to how social media works.

    See, I just can't see eye to eye with this at all. I feel like I'm saying "this will make things worse", and you're both saying "well, things are already bad, so it doesn't matter". Sure, toxic groups will be toxic no matter what. But they're worse when they have a shared objective to organize around, and even worse than that if they think they have a real shot at succeeding. That's what I'm trying to get at here.
  • The Snyder Cut is coming, and so is the internet

    rhcoop said:
    I can’t tell you how hyped I am for all these people to finally shut the fuck up. 

    Why does it bother you so much if you aren't interested in it?

    I'm excited to watch it because of all of the horrible personal things that happened to the director while it was being made.   

    It's not hurting anyone, a lot of the footage is already there, I don't see what the issue is.  
    I have to take issue with "it's not hurting anyone", because it is objectively hurting people. There was a bunch of rampant harassment and toxicity coming out of the #ReleaseTheSnyderCut crowd, directed towards anyone who disagreed with them. Actually releasing the cut teaches those people that these tactics work. Toxic groups in fandom will learn that if they whine and shout loud enough, they'll get what they want, so they'll keep on doing it, every time they don't like something.

    If it sounds like I'm being ridiculous, check out this brief Twitter thread from January about Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker  This is the direction all large fandom discourse is headed in: baseless conspiracy theories, tribalism, and harassing stan armies mobilized against directors, writers, actors, producers, journalists, or whoever else they've decided is responsible for them not getting the exact film they wanted. Putting out the Snyder cut only adds fuel to the fire.