Thomas

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  • U.S. Politics episode 4: A New Thread

    Thomas said:
    Thomas said:
    Well, hopefully our idiot President has learned his lesson on speaking out and influencing trials.  Bergdahl, a full-on deserter, has received a lesser punishment for his crimes than an overweight soldier would or a soldier who got busted having sexual relations with his wife in any position other than missionary.  Yes, that is how stupid this is.  I don't think he deserved the death penalty or life in prison, but he deserved more than a simple dishonorable discharge.  Hundreds of people having be prosecuted for deserting while on R&R these last 16 years, yet this guy gets nothing. You can say he suffered at the hands of the Taliban, but that is complete BS if you have any idea what real Taliban captives have to deal with.
    So a judge decides not to apply punishment and that's Trumps fault? So your argument is that an army judge is so derelict in his duties he can't deal with a president talking about an issue that was debated about in public and thus didn't perform his duties correctly? 


    When that same judge says he is going to take the President's Tweets and statements into consideration, then yes, he played a part in it.  He was already tweeting saying the NYC attacker deserves the death penalty too.  Normal American's can publicly state these opinions, but our President should not.  
    Then the judge should be dismissed or disciplined for dereliction of duty since the presidents actions have no bearing on his obligations to the law. 

    If a judge lowers a judicial sentence because of what an American citizen expressed as an opinion he is not qualified to hold that office, in any event it's not the president's responsibility 
    Haha, it wasn't an ordinary American citizen, it was the President of the United States, the head of the Executive branch of the United States government.  What do courts do when someone on trial has received potentially unfair media attention in the community they are being tried in?  Don't they usually move it somewhere else?  The President has a much louder voice than a local media outlet.
    Dee
  • U.S. Politics episode 4: A New Thread

    gguenot said:
    I agree this is a tough subject and it’s easy to sound like all Muslims are being generalized, but my concern is the “what can we do about it?” response. As a member of the left, if we continue to be unable to discuss this issues we’re facing then those who are truely prejudiced will end up having their way. Take Majid Nawaz— he’s literally a former extremist now counter extremist and he doesn’t have a platform to speak on liberal media sites. He is advocating the tenants of liberalism: gay rights, women’s rights, etc but calling for a reform of the religion and the only station that will have him is Fox News. Fox News then takes his message and uses it to fuel the true bigotry against Muslims by reinforcing stereotypes and stoking fears. To paraphrase Sam Harris, if the left can’t even talk about the issues within the religion, how can it ever begin to be reformed to grant women and gays equal rights? If we continue to excuse modern terror attacks by pointing to other religions’ faults then the bigots will win with their Muslim bans, registries, and persecution. The only thing keeping that from happening right now is the left and moderates defense of Muslims— which they should be defended. But how many more attack will need to happen before the “solutions” of the bigots start sounding reasonable? That’s all I have to say on the matter. I have a couple Muslim friends that I’ve had for a long time. One doesn’t agree with me like others here and the other does— it’s all about keeping communication channels and minds open.
    Exactly.  

    To my previous point, why is it people were ok going after the Catholic church for molesting kids and calling for reforms, but going after Islam to reform itself is somehow awful?

    I think Islam got a major wake-up call when ISIS rolled through a lot of its territories and destroyed the local Muslim populous.  They didn't get this with Al Qaeda until Zarqawi came around, who was basically the unknowing founder of ISIS.

    Europe has a much larger issue with Muslims than we do in America.  I would argue we don't really have much of an issue because most of the radicals here are immigrants rather than converts.  American Muslims are much freer than almost all Muslims around the world, which might play in to why you don't see born and raised Muslims in America killing people very often, it is also someone born and raised in a more fundamentalist nation. 
    Brawn
  • U.S. Politics episode 4: A New Thread

    Phoebes89 said:
    Vanslewel said:
    Thomas said:

    You just named a couple thousand out of billions.  There are some that are doing good stuff, but the overwhelming majority are not doing anything.  I already provided examples of Muslim neighborhoods refusing to call police when they know one of their neighbors is about to conduct a terrorist act.  They didn't speak up when the Charlie Hebdo shooters were sleeping next door.  That happens regularly.  Do you think that is not a problem?  
    The majority of non-Muslims aren't doing anything to combat terrorism either, because most people, regardless of faith or political ideology, aren't really in a position to do anything. We live our lives and put our trust in the intelligence services, military, and law enforcement to combat terrorism and other threats to our society. I haven't done anything in the past year to help combat terrorism, and most people I know haven't either. I assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that you haven't either. 

    You assert that Muslim neighbors refused to call police on the Charlie Hebdo shooters. Is there a reputable news source you're getting your information from? 

    There are 3.3 million Muslims in the United States. That's roughly the population of Connecticut. A handful have committed acts of violence. From a logical perspective, it simply doesn't make sense to condemn millions of individuals for the crimes of a few. 

    Correction, it was the Paris attack last year, not the Charlie Hebdo shooting.  But here is a link.  There are a lot more examples similar to this you can find.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2016/03/19/captured-paris-attacks-suspect-abdeslam-hid-in-belgiums-molenbeek.html

    Again, you are deflecting.  When I say Muslims aren't doing enough to condone their own issues, you automatically respond with "well non-Muslims aren't either" as if that is a valid response.  As I posted earlier, in order to criticize Republicans do I also need to criticize Democrats too?  No.

    Also, since you ignored what I have written about 10 times, I am not condoning Muslims.  I am simply stating that their religion has a lot of issues and they need to step up to combat them.
    The article mentions that the suspect's associates and friends helped to conceal him. It does not say that neighbors knew he was in hiding there. 

    I'm not trying to deflect. I'm just pointing out that your assertion that the majority of Muslims aren't doing anything Is holding them to an unfair standard. What, pray tell, is a doctor, student, or insurance salesman living in suburban Virginia supposed to do when they don't have any specific information about someone who's been radicalized? And why should my Muslim neighbor be condemned for doing nothing when I'm not doing anything either? 

    My only quibbles with you are that 1) blanket assertions that Muslims aren't doing enough to combat terrorism are not accurate (see details about the current fight against ISIS) and that 2) that terrorists belong to a few sub-sects of a huge religion that has over a billion followers, so blaming a religion makes no logical sense.



    Continue to apply pressure to help reform their religious practice from the inside?  Nobody's going to clean up regressive Islam but Muslims.

    gguenot said:
    Vanslewel said:
    Thomas said:



    https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/04/15/world/europe/poll-british-muslims.amp.html

    You do bring up a good point about what random suburbia dwelling Muslims are meant to do about the extremists in their religion— I don’t really have an answer for that. The problem I see is the data in the article.


    gguenot said:
    Vanslewel said:

    You assert that Muslim neighbors refused to call police on the Charlie Hebdo shooters. Is there a reputable news source you're getting your information from? 

    There are 3.3 million Muslims in the United States. That's roughly the population of Connecticut. A handful have committed acts of violence. From a logical perspective, it simply doesn't make sense to condemn millions of individuals for the crimes of a few. 
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/04/15/world/europe/poll-british-muslims.amp.html

    I have seen many people bring up polls and say that the way to solve extremist Islam is by Muslims. I always wonder what people are expected to do? When I lived in Saudi the mosques would have talks about Muslim extremism and people were encouraged to anonymously share if they had been in contact with anyone who had extremist views. September 11th actually happened when I was quite young and in Islamic school. We actually ended our lessons early that day to watch the news and everyone was upset and crying. We had a really powerful sermon about how the terrorists were evil and that this was not Islam. We actually were bussed home early that day because people picketed outside our school calling us terrorists and throwing rocks, I was 12 at the time.

    I am genuinely asking what else people are expecting Muslims to do? 
    Is just sitting back and letting their problems grow and impact non-Muslims the answer?  No.  Saudi Arabia is the largest exporter of radicalism.  They are the cause of a lot of the hardcore fundamentalists around the world.  

    That is like saying I went into a Catholic church for a year and never saw a boy get raped so I guess there isn't a problem with the Catholic church raping boys huh?
    Brawn
  • U.S. Politics episode 4: A New Thread

    Frakkin T said:
    You're talking very broadly about the problems with an entire religion. What I am saying is that if you say American Muslims need to condemn Muslim terrorists, you also need to say that white americans need to condemn white terrorists or explain to me why they don't. 
    I already addressed that.  You just ignored it.  You are talking about a race of people and comparing it to a religion.  Americans denounce when white Americans commit and act of terror.  I ask to provide me with any proof of credible Americans leader supporting or celebrating the Vegas shooter...I will wait.  

    You are also deflecting from my main point.  Christians and whites have nothing to do with Islam having an issue with terrorism.  When you criticize a Republican do you also require yourself to criticize a Democrat?  I doubt it.  That is what you are doing now.
    Brawn
  • U.S. Politics episode 4: A New Thread

    Frakkin T said:
    @Thomas If it's incumbent on all Muslims to denounce Muslim radicals, isn't it also incumbent on all white people to denounce the vegas shooter, Timothy McVeigh, and Dylann Roof? When have white people ever spoken up to denounce these radical terrorists who share their culture?
    Another false equivalency.  I am pretty sure every media channel in America came out and said Dylann Roof was an evil, awful human.  If Roof's neighbors all knew what he was planning on doing, do you think they would have remained silent for fear that they would be chastised by their community?  No.  Do you think if Timothy McVeigh's family, friends, and neighbors all knew what he was about to do they would have remained silent?  Of course not.  

    When a radical Muslim terrorist blows himself up in a school, entire countries celebrate.  Imams praise the martyr.  You can watch hundreds of videos of Muslims clerics talking in front of huge crowds praising those martyrs who slaughtered the non-believers.  Show me videos of reputable community leaders actually praising Timothy McVeigh or Dylann Roof?

    If it isn't Islam's fault that people in Muslim communities are too afraid to speak up to prevent a terrorist attack, then whose fault is it?  It must also not be Islam's fault that women can be stoned to death in most Islamic nations simply because of a rumor of adultery.  Those same women who were forced into marriage, many at young ages.  I am sure it isn't Islam's fault that young boys are used as sex toys in Afghanistan?  Probably isn't Islam's fault most Islamic nations have banned homosexuality either huh?  
    Brawn