Thomas

I think it would have been far better had they done El's arc over a couple episodes or at least split this episode up.  Fully removing us from Hawkins for an entire episode, especially after the intense ending to the previous one, just seemed to put the brakes on.  Felt like a TWD filler almost.

Vanslewel said:

Thomas said:

KingKobra said:

Vanslewel said:

Thomas said:

It is very much about religion.  Go to the Middle East and see how Islam plays a role.  I have conversed with Iraqis, Afghanis, Pakistanis, Iranians, and a few Saudis...it is about Islam.  When your religious text tells you to kill apostates and make people convert to Islam or kill them, don't you think that is a little inciting?  False equivalencies like saying a white christian killing people is no different than a Islamic person killing people are completely false.  The Charleston killer didn't do it in the name of the bible or Jesus.  


When people are literally screaming Allah Akbar as they slaughter infidels, you don't think that is about Islam?  Islam has a major problem, everyone knows it, but the left is too afraid to admit it.

Islam, or any other religion/ideology, is just a signifier. Individuals and religious sects can interpret a particular religious text or a prophet's words in a million different ways. My kind and loving aunt, the KKK, Pope Francis, and the Lord Resistance Army all call themselves Christians, and act as they believe true Christians should act, but that means very different things to each of them. History is rife with violent strains of every religion. It is specific historical circumstances that lead to violence. While there are specific religious figures who identify as Muslim who peddle violent ideologies, it is not accurate to refer to a singular "Islam." 

That last sentence is probably the MOST important one. Generalizing what extremists do to an entire group of people is no better than what many of them do to radicalize their followers. 

It isn't generalizing when you can see it in their religious texts.  You can read the lines in the Quran.  If Christianity stuck to the Old Testament, you could probably bet that it would have a more violent following.

"As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

I mean, I could easily go on.  You're telling me people devout in the faith aren't going to read this and say "hmm, killing non-Muslims will make Allah happy and get me to heaven."??

Saudi Arabia is the number 1 exporter of Wahhabism in the world.

Iran and Pakistan are Islamic Republics and both government support terrorist networks....could you imagine if the US labeled itself a Christian Democracy?

I don't even need to get into their treatment of women and gay people, which is atrocious.  

People like to jump to the whataboutism by deflecting to Christianity because they feel better about themselves insulting what they know more about.  Would you say the epidemic of sexual assault in the Catholic church IS NOT a religious issue?  No,because it is, and by saying so doesn't mean you are degrading every Catholic.  Same for Islam.  Islam has  HUGE problem globally right now, and it doesn't mean every Islamic person is bad.  

When Maajid Nawaz speaks out against the problems of Islam, how can you tell him he is wrong?  He has been in a terrorist network, he is a Muslim, yet he, along with a lot of others, are standing up and saying there is a problem and it needs to be fixed and it needs to be led by Muslims to reform the problems.  

As I said before, there are a million of different ways to interpret a passage in a religious text, and most followers rely on their religious leaders for interpretation. I live two minutes away from a mosque. The people who attend it are my neighbors. They have never tried to convert me, nor have they ever threatened to kill me, so my own personal experience makes it impossible for me to believe that reading the Quran ipso facto turns people into murderous religious fanatics. 

I brought up Christianity not to insult it but to illustrate how it isn't really feasible from an analytical perspective to treat any religion with one billion+ adherents as a single entity. 

If you're interested in the psychology of terrorism, I suggest reading 'Psychology of Terrorism,' by Bruce Bongar, et al. 

My first graduate school course was called "Psychology of Terrorism" and I had to read the book.  Didn't change my opinion that the larger issue is that non-radical Muslims prefer to stay quiet than stand up against radicalism.  Nobody is saying arrest all Muslims.  People who are outspoken towards Islam criticize their failure to act and police their own.  Muslim clerics shouldn't be the ruling body of communities, but they are, because their faith prefers to restrict freedoms than promote it.  I work with Muslims who live in a predominantly Christian neighborhood.  They are free to do what they want.  The Muslims that I have met who live in places like New York or St Paul aren't allowed to speak out or else they will be verbally, and sometimes physically, assaulted by their neighbors. 

KingKobra said:

Vanslewel said:

Thomas said:

It is very much about religion.  Go to the Middle East and see how Islam plays a role.  I have conversed with Iraqis, Afghanis, Pakistanis, Iranians, and a few Saudis...it is about Islam.  When your religious text tells you to kill apostates and make people convert to Islam or kill them, don't you think that is a little inciting?  False equivalencies like saying a white christian killing people is no different than a Islamic person killing people are completely false.  The Charleston killer didn't do it in the name of the bible or Jesus.  


When people are literally screaming Allah Akbar as they slaughter infidels, you don't think that is about Islam?  Islam has a major problem, everyone knows it, but the left is too afraid to admit it.

Islam, or any other religion/ideology, is just a signifier. Individuals and religious sects can interpret a particular religious text or a prophet's words in a million different ways. My kind and loving aunt, the KKK, Pope Francis, and the Lord Resistance Army all call themselves Christians, and act as they believe true Christians should act, but that means very different things to each of them. History is rife with violent strains of every religion. It is specific historical circumstances that lead to violence. While there are specific religious figures who identify as Muslim who peddle violent ideologies, it is not accurate to refer to a singular "Islam." 

That last sentence is probably the MOST important one. Generalizing what extremists do to an entire group of people is no better than what many of them do to radicalize their followers. 

It isn't generalizing when you can see it in their religious texts.  You can read the lines in the Quran.  If Christianity stuck to the Old Testament, you could probably bet that it would have a more violent following.

"As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

I mean, I could easily go on.  You're telling me people devout in the faith aren't going to read this and say "hmm, killing non-Muslims will make Allah happy and get me to heaven."??

Saudi Arabia is the number 1 exporter of Wahhabism in the world.

Iran and Pakistan are Islamic Republics and both government support terrorist networks....could you imagine if the US labeled itself a Christian Democracy?

I don't even need to get into their treatment of women and gay people, which is atrocious.  

People like to jump to the whataboutism by deflecting to Christianity because they feel better about themselves insulting what they know more about.  Would you say the epidemic of sexual assault in the Catholic church IS NOT a religious issue?  No,because it is, and by saying so doesn't mean you are degrading every Catholic.  Same for Islam.  Islam has  HUGE problem globally right now, and it doesn't mean every Islamic person is bad.  

When Maajid Nawaz speaks out against the problems of Islam, how can you tell him he is wrong?  He has been in a terrorist network, he is a Muslim, yet he, along with a lot of others, are standing up and saying there is a problem and it needs to be fixed and it needs to be led by Muslims to reform the problems.  

It is very much about religion.  Go to the Middle East and see how Islam plays a role.  I have conversed with Iraqis, Afghanis, Pakistanis, Iranians, and a few Saudis...it is about Islam.  When your religious text tells you to kill apostates and make people convert to Islam or kill them, don't you think that is a little inciting?  False equivalencies like saying a white christian killing people is no different than a Islamic person killing people are completely false.  The Charleston killer didn't do it in the name of the bible or Jesus.  


When people are literally screaming Allah Akbar as they slaughter infidels, you don't think that is about Islam?  Islam has a major problem, everyone knows it, but the left is too afraid to admit it.

This season really disappointed me.  I enjoyed the ending, the development of Dustin, Steve, Hopper, and even Joyce's character grew on me.  But it had way too many weak spots.  The actress playing Max was so terrible that I couldn't stand to watch her talk, Billy's plot just got really annoying and ended up being pointless, Jonathon/Nancy felt like a fan-service, and the cooky investigator was too much.  

I think people are way too quick to dismiss bad plot points or casting as "oh it is just a nod to the 80's, duh."  Compared to TWD I would give this season a 10/10, but compared to season 1 I would give it a 7/10.  I am still excited for season 3 because this season finale really did a good job.  I just can't get passed episodes like El's "Lost Sister" one, which was terrible.