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But like I said, I feel like it's going to be planting a seed in a garden that we'll never see grow. I don't think there will be another movie in this universe, set years down the road where Joaquin is fighting a grown up Batman. At least from the trailers, this universe feels too real for that sort of thing. And that's fine.
ken hale said:rhcoop said:That's a really interesting thing to think about, and I suppose I can't think of any "semi-modern" characters that would even be in the public domain. Isn't it too recent for them to be? Even characters from defunct publishers (like Vampirella, apparently a Warren character?), the rights to those characters aren't public domain. Dynamite currently publishes Vampirella, I believe. So, if "semi-modern" does include characters like Sherlock Holmes, Frankenstein, etc, I would argue that being in the public domain has kept them relevant. I'd also expand the concept of characters to include historical figures like Wyatt Earp, certainly more well-known as a character as a result of the myriad fictional accounts that have been produced as a result of his being a public figure. Even with more modern characters you could argue that stuff like fan-fiction keeps them more relevant than they otherwise would be.On a tangential note (not really because the topic is about Spider-Man), I have to ask why everyone likes the tom Holland films? He doesn't say "Great Power, Great Responsibility" once. He LITERALLY calls Stark his father-figure and doesn't mention Ben once. It's such an abomination, it's like if Batman still lived with his parents or Superman was just here on Earth for a holiday. In "Spider-Verse," he drops the "Great Responsibility" line in the first twenty seconds of screen-time. It's beautiful. That movie gets it. The MCU spiderman can get bent, lol.
The characters I was specifically talking about were characters from the pulps and early golden age comics like the Shadow, golden age Daredevil, Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers, Zorro, Tarzan, Lone Ranger, Doc Savage, ect. If they are not technically in the public domain, the rights have been tied up in courts for so long nothing meaningful has been done with them. If DC or Marvel or some other guiding force with money it would be interesting to see what we would have gotten with those characters over the years. Hell, the best Doc Savage, Shadow and Tarzan material we've had in decades was the analog characters Ellis created for his Planetary series. I think the core superheroes would have suffered the same fate without the copywrite protection.
I like the MCU spidey films, but I HATE Tony being such a big part of it. He'd really be drawn more to Cap because he's more like Uncle Ben, but they have to push RDJ. Unpopular opinion, but I'm not a fan of this versions MJ. She's nothing like the comic character and I'm not even talking about her appearance. I don't know how anyone that's read a Spider-Man comic can really argue with that.
I think the best thing that could happen from all of this is for Sony to teach Disney a tough lesson and strike a strong deal in their favor that allows Disney to use him, but then Sony makes a great Spider-man movie on their own and gets Deadpool and Spidey together and then maybe a good Venom/Carnage movie. Then all those characters are MCU adjacent and Disney just has to deal with it.
ken hale said:
Spider-Man was most likely planned to be the POV and anchor character for the next major storyline like Cap and Tony where for the first 20 plus movies. Without him, they really need to go ahead and cast Wolverine and introduce him into the MCU sooner rather than later. I like the FF, but I don't know if they have as much star power as the X-Men characters do.
Black Panther is very popular, but I don't know if he can pull the rest of the MCU along with him and I don't see Carol Danvers or Falcon/Bucky as great answers either. Neither of the actors playing Bucky or Falcon have proven they can carry a movie or they would have by now with all the exposure the MCU movies have provided.
I get what you are saying about them having lots of characters, but I don't know if anyone is excited about seeing a Great Lakes Avengers movie headlined with C or D list characters for more than one movie. GofG was a surprise, but you can't expect to catch lightning in a bottle consistently.
I just think you'll have increasingly diminished stakes the more you move away from the important main characters, but that is just me.
If they lose Spiderman for good (which I seriously doubt really happens, Disney will cave in), they should consider rebooting after this next phase and recast the core avengers and start from scratch with the Avengers, FF and X-Men all together from the beginning IMO.
asmallcat said:Fragmentation 2.0. It's gonna kill a bunch of these streaming services, but the big boys like Netflix and Hulu have the inertia and cash/ability to raise cash that they'll probably be fine. CBS, Disney, etc will realize they aren't making enough back on the streams to pay for the shows they are making to be exclusive there because people will pirate rather than pay for 10 different services, everything will end up back on Netflix and Hulu eventually.
Welcome to the cycle we'll be seeing for the foreseeable future. People subscribe to a couple services cause they have a lot of stuff and are good value, then big creator companies think "why are they getting a cut, I can get it all myself!" completely not understanding why people subscribed in the first place.
The HBO max will probably be the same.
Disney owns Hulu so they may keep it around for a while, but its on the endangered species list now IMO.
rkcrawf said:@rhcoop I think that the same problem that X-men faced (and didn't really solve). They did half a reboot, which left them with multiple time lines, and having to place a lot of star power on the wrong characters. Luckily, the MCU has a big staple of characters and is getting the X-men back, so that could help. If I am MCU, I announce new X-men casting as in progress tomorrow!!
It's going to be odd with the Avengers though. Do you have some other actor playing alt-Steve Rodgers playing alongside of Hemsworth and Spider-Man? That makes my brain hurt. Or do you role with Captain Falcon until a full reboot is ready. James Bond provides a model for it, I guess, but I could never follow that continuity either.
I'd then recast Wolverine and start planning the x-men entering the MCU. I don't know if I would go with the OG lineup or just jump to the new class from Giant Size X-Men 1 that introduced Wolverine, Colossus, Storm and Nightcrawler. That team included a lot of the original ones so I'd probably go that way.
One I had that done, I'd see how successful Evans has really been during this time. I'd offer him some money to come back for a multi-picture deal (remember, cap can be plucked from any point in the past so its ok if he is older) and if he balks, I recast.
People have accepted multiple Batmans and Supermans, they'll get over the shock with Wolverine being recast and then they'll get over it w/Cap.
I'd recast IM at this point and you can always say Tony had a cloned younger body ready as a contingency and Spider-man finally found the files about this. That's literally been done once or twice already in the comics.